Seahorses in a nano?

[Blue Meg]

I have an old 20 gallon all in one tenecor. I used it in college before jumping to a 75 gallon and eventually getting out of the hobby. I started it up again after 23 years and it still worked. Naturally, I moved to an 85 gallon after a year. But I still have this tank.

My fiance and my kids are asking for a sea horse. I'd put it in the 85 gallon except that the big bubble tip anemone might have a snack or there might be issues with Racecar the 6 line or bubbles the murderer clownfish.... kids named the fish....at least nothing was named nemo....

So has anyone done seahorses in a 20 gallon? What do you let them grab on to? The only time I ever see them, they are swimming, grabbing on to sea grass or holding on to a sea fan, but that is in the wild.

 

[GHsaltie]

@vlangel
@Lionfish Lair

 

[vlangel]

Hi Blue Meg and welcome to R2R! Seahorses are quite a bit different than other marine fishes and have some special needs that must met. I am sorry to inform you that your 20 gallon AIO is not an optimal tank to do that. Just to state a few reasons is they are social creatures and do best when in a group of at least 2, but seahorse conventional wisdom says that a pair of ponies should have a minimal of 30 gallons. AIO systems quite often run warm and seahorses do much better in temperatures of 70-74°F to curb pathogenic bacteria, which is something ponies are vulnerable to.
If you would like to read more about the needs and details about keeping seahorses, go to the 'Seahorse/pipefish' section and look for threads in stickied part. There are lots of articles on seahorses. There are some very experienced folks here at R2R who can answer more questions.

 

[Blue Meg]

Hi Blue Meg and welcome to R2R! Seahorses are quite a bit different than other marine fishes and have some special needs that must met. I am sorry to inform you that your 20 gallon AIO is not an optimal tank to do that. Just to state a few reasons is they are social creatures and do bes
when in a group of at least 2, but seahorse conventional wisdom says that a pair of ponies should have a minimal of 30 gallons. AIO quite often run warm and seahorses do much better in temperatures of 70-74°F to curb pathogenic bacteria, which is something ponies are vulnerable to.
If you would like to read more about the needs and details about keeping seahorses, go to the 'Seahorse/pipefish' section and look for threads in stickied part. There are lots of articles on seahorses. There are some very experienced folks here at R2R who can answer more questions.

Thanks. But I have to wonder, why have I seen seahorses and pipefish in the wild when the temperature was greater? I was diving off the southern part of the Belize barrier reef and got up into the grasses. There they were. By the way, its a great place to see fun critters. The acros are amazing and the reef squid school and talk to each other in colors and shapes.

 

[Blue Meg]

Hi Blue Meg and welcome to R2R! Seahorses are quite a bit different than other marine fishes and have some special needs that must met. I am sorry to inform you that your 20 gallon AIO is not an optimal tank to do that. Just to state a few reasons is they are social creatures and do best when in a group of at least 2, but seahorse conventional wisdom says that a pair of ponies should have a minimal of 30 gallons. AIO systems quite often run warm and seahorses do much better in temperatures of 70-74°F to curb pathogenic bacteria, which is something ponies are vulnerable to.
If you would like to read more about the needs and details about keeping seahorses, go to the 'Seahorse/pipefish' section and look for threads in stickied part. There are lots of articles on seahorses. There are some very experienced folks here at R2R who can answer more questions.

I also had my former rebreather instructor see some off Kamodo island. They were the pygmy versions that were holding on to sea fans. Considering that water temp, I would suspect at least 75 or greater.

 

[TerraFerma]

I think what vlangel might be inferring is that most of the that see horses that YOU would be able to buy come from cooler water

 

[Blue Meg]

I think what vlangel might be inferring is that most of the that see horses that YOU would be able to buy come from cooler water

Ah, that makes sense then. My local fish store had one in the acan/brain/scoly tank for a while which runs about 78 and it seemed to be doing well. But I understand. Are seahorses captive bred or are they captured?

 

[TerraFerma]

Ah, that makes sense then. My local fish store had one in the acan/brain/scoly tank for a while which runs about 78 and it seemed to be doing well. But I understand. Are seahorses captive bred or are they captured?

I'm amateur hour with seahorses but the majority available seem to be CB. The only wild ones I've ever seen are from Florida (which isn't on the high end of tropical most of the year) and the leafy/weedy from Southern Australia where it is very temperate. Hippocampus barbouri comes from Indo but they get too large for a 20g. The erectus, which you can find CB, come from soundly temperate areas. As an aside - seahorses in South Asia have seen stark population declines from over collecting so your not likely to see wild stock from there.

 

[vlangel]

Thanks. But I have to wonder, why have I seen seahorses and pipefish in the wild when the temperature was greater? I was diving off the southern part of the Belize barrier reef and got up into the grasses. There they were. By the way, its a great place to see fun critters. The acros are amazing and the reef squid school and talk to each other in colors and shapes.

Good morning and you are absolutely correct in that many species of seahorses do live in warmer waters. Actually the reason most of us seahorse keepers run our tanks 74° or lower is because we feed our seahorses frozen mysis because it is convenient and always available. It does however degrade quickly in a tank with temperatures over 74° and dangerous bacteria inhabit it. Then when a hungry seahorse finds it and eats it, their lack of immune response in the gut allows the bacteria to overcome the seahorse. So, if you were to feed your seahorse only live food, (which would need to be enriched ) then you can keep them in warmer temperatures.

 

[vlangel]

Ah, that makes sense then. My local fish store had one in the acan/brain/scoly tank for a while which runs about 78 and it seemed to be doing well. But I understand. Are seahorses captive bred or are they captured?

That makes me very sad for that particular seahorse. Sadly most lfs do not understand the special needs that seahorses have, (even good reputable lfs). Open brain coral and scolys are not seahorse safe. Seahorses also do not have scales like other fishes but rather they have skin. Since scales act like armor for a fish to protect its exterior, seahorses do not have this protection. Their skin can easily be scratched, punctured and is vulnerable to stings from coral. Also they hitch and can be enveloped or trapped by some coral.

 

[vlangel]

I'm amateur hour with seahorses but the majority available seem to be CB. The only wild ones I've ever seen are from Florida (which isn't on the high end of tropical most of the year) and the leafy/weedy from Southern Australia where it is very temperate. Hippocampus barbouri comes from Indo but they get too large for a 20g. The erectus, which you can find CB, come from soundly temperate areas. As an aside - seahorses in South Asia have seen stark population declines from over collecting so your not likely to see wild stock from there.

The seahorse terminology has gotten muddied in recent years. The terms CB (captive bred), TR (tank raised), NP (net penned) and WC (wild caught) is confusing and sometimes misleading.

WC is the most straight forward. It refers to seahorses that live and were born in the ocean but were taken out for the pet trade. Sadly the long term prognosis for these seahorses is very poor. They generally are not fed well between being caught and ending up in a lfs. They were used to eating live food and thus will not eat frozen mysis. Then they are offered live brine shrimp with is barren of nutrition. Thus they are malnourished and weakened. Also they are often kept with other fish and exposed to many pathogens and their lack of immunity allows them to become sick. Finally if the lfs is not knowledgable about their needs, then the customer is likely to be misinformed as well.

Similar to WC is NP. This is generally a practice that poor asian countries do. They encircle a portion of the ocean just off shore that contains a population of seahorses. They may even feed them frozen mysis to get them accustomed to eating some frozen. Then they harvest young seahorses for the pet trade. Unfortunately these young seahorses must endure long shipping. Again they arrive malnourished and often sickly and again their prognosis is poor.

The most misleading terminology of all is TR. Again this is usually a practice done in poor asian countries. Pregnant males are gotten from the ocean and are kept until they have fry. The fry are kept in tanks that have ocean water flowing through them for filtration. These fry are exposed to all the pathogens in the ocean. Because the countries they come from are poor their nutritional needs are not met fully and they are often shipped and sold too young. Once again they arrive at an ill informed lfs malnourished and sickly.
Most WC, NP and TR seahorses do not live past their first year of life.

A true CB seahorse is one that is raised in captivity in synthetic salt water or filtered sea water. They are trained onto frozen mysis as their staple food. The farms or hobbyists who raise them have done so for multple generations and they are adapted for aquarium life. They are not sold until 4-6 months when they are reaching sexual maturity. They are then available directly from the farm or hobbyist and only lfs that are dedicated to meeting their needs acquire CB because they cost more. It is money well spent however because these ponies when sold to an informed hobbyist can live 5-7 years.

That may have been way more than you wanted to know and if you read this whole post, I thank you and so do seahorses.

 

[Blue Meg]

The seahorse I saw in this particular tank seemed to be doing fine. Granted, I did not see it when the brains and scoly corals had their feeders out at 5 am. But the seahorse had been there for a few days. I was tempted to buy it, except that I have two very mean fish (a snowflake clown, and a 6 line) and more importantly, a beautiful large pink/purple bubble tip.

 

[vlangel]

Clownfish and evil 6 line are not suitable roommates for a seahorse, LOL.