Seeking Expert Advice - Moving Sump to Basement

[PeterC99]

Got a good deal on 60g sump and 60g frag tank. Looking to move the sump to the basement for my RSR 425 XL and new 60g frag tank. Appreciate any expert advice and tips for this migration.

Thank you!

Moving from this:

To this:

 

[Subsea]

Danish philosopher, Niels Borr defined EXPERT

Someone who has made every possible mistake in a field of endeavor and I might resemble that remark.

Abraham defined expert as someone who went 50 miles to give their opinion.

 

[Subsea]

@PeterC99

@vlangel has an extended system in her basement that feeds her display at main level. About 12’ of static head pressure. Assume .5 psi for each foot of static head pressure and get a pump capable of double head pressure.

I had remote extended refugiums in carport 2‘ below display tank. The surface area ratios of each system is important.. This is especially critical when power fails or a snail obstructs your drain to sump. Each scenario presents its own engineering pros & cons.

In the case of restriction in drain to basement, if your return pump flow rate to display exceeds drain, you could overflow your display. I suggest two options: use high level shutoff in display to turn off your basement return pump or design volumes & locate suction of basement pump at higher level so it sucks air before overflowing display. With this said, be careful if you install auto fill so as not to overflow tank on top.

 

[PeterC99]

Danish philosopher, Niels Borr defined EXPERT

Someone who has made every possible mistake in a field of endeavor and I might resemble that remark.

Abraham defined expert as someone who went 50 miles to give their opinion.

Very wise words!

Hoping to avoid many of those mistakes! That’s why I posted here on R2R. I truly believe that Reefers are a different breed that will go out their way to help fellow Reefers. I recently gave away some homegrown phytoplankton for free to a new Reefer to help him start his own cultures. All about the karma!

Reefers help other Reefers to succeed!

 

[PeterC99]

@PeterC99

@vlangel has an extended system in her basement that feeds her display at main level. About 12’ of static head pressure. Assume .5 psi for each foot of static head pressure and get a pump capable of double head pressure.

I had remote extended refugiums in carport 2‘ below display tank. The surface area ratios of each system is important.. This is especially critical when power fails or a snail obstructs your drain to sump. Each scenario presents its own engineering pros & cons.

In the case of restriction in drain to basement, if your return pump flow rate to display exceeds drain, you could overflow your display. I suggest two options: use high level shutoff in display to turn off your basement return pump or design volumes & locate suction of basement pump at higher level so it sucks air before overflowing display. With this said, be careful if you install auto fill so as not to overflow tank on top.

Thank for this information. Will use your calcs to ensure I size return pump correctly.

With surface area, do you mean the sump has enough extra space when return pump is turned off and the water back flows to the sump?

Finally - are you suggesting to put a float value in my main display to automatically turnoff the return pump to ensure main display tank never overflows if the return pipes ever clog?

Thank you for sharing this information and your attention to the details.

 

[Subsea]

Thank for this information. Will use your calcs to ensure I size return pump correctly.

With surface area, do you mean the sump has enough extra space when return pump is turned off and the water back flows to the sump?

Finally - are you suggesting to put a float value in my main display to automatically turnoff the return pump to ensure main display tank never overflows if the return pipes ever clog?

Thank you for sharing this information and your attention to the details.

Yes to sump having enough volume to not overflow from display when electricity fails.

The second consideration is to place sump pump suction high enough in sump so it sucks air before it overflows display when drain in display becomes restricted with a snail or fish. If the two levels were engineered correctly you would not need a sump pump shutoff switch.

 

[edd59]

the surface area's of your sump and tank dont change for a basement sump. same principals we follow just a little more water volume in piping.
figure out your height ,fittings and pipe size and length to get your total head and then follow the pumps head pressure calculator. i had a basement sump on a 300 before.
i also have a blue line pump i could sell or trade.

 

[edd59]

also nice to have your pumps on a controller so you can stop them for feed time without going down stairs.

 

[PeterC99]

the surface area's of your sump and tank dont change for a basement sump. same principals we follow just a little more water volume in piping.
figure out your height ,fittings and pipe size and length to get your total head and then follow the pumps head pressure calculator. i had a basement sump on a 300 before.
i also have a blue line pump i could sell or trade.

I’m upgrading from a 24g sump to a 60g sump and adding a 60g frag tank to my 90g display tank.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

I’m upgrading from a 24g sump to a 60g sump and adding a 60g frag tank to my 90g display tank.

How are you dealing with adding so much new water volume and clean sump to the existing system without any nutrient or element disruption? What are you using to maintain alkalinity and calcium now? Thanks

 

[PeterC99]

Still working out the logistics and that was the reason for this thread.

I have a couple of extra bio bricks in my sump now that I plan on moving to the new sump but am concerned about cycling again.

I have a calcium reactor for Alk & Calcium 24/7 and supplement with All for Reef in the daytime.

My challenge right now is figuring the ATO in the sump to work for both tanks.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

I'm starting a similar project adding a second tank of equal size and upgrading to a much larger sump to the already existing tank.

I plan on setting up the new tank and sump having them run with water and rock from the existing tank and having the plumbing ready to go in place for the existing tank and after a few months of the new tank and sump running off existing water, I will cut out the old sump hook up to the plumbing that's sitting ready and hopefully fire up both tanks.

I still think there will be major shocks to the system, along with demands changing. I will pretty much plan for a reboot but hope for the best.

What do you mean about your ato? Is the sensor in the pump chamber?

 

[PeterC99]

I'm starting a similar project adding a second tank of equal size and upgrading to a much larger sump to the already existing tank.

I plan on setting up the new tank and sump having them run with water and rock from the existing tank and having the plumbing ready to go in place for the existing tank and after a few months of the new tank and sump running off existing water, I will cut out the old sump hook up to the plumbing that's sitting ready and hopefully fire up both tanks.

I still think there will be major shocks to the system, along with demands changing. I will pretty much plan for a reboot but hope for the best.

What do you mean about your ato? Is the sensor in the pump chamber?

Really like your transition plan and now that I think about it, will do the same - run both sumps until I’m satisfied the new sump handles biolaod adequately.

Worried about the ato maintaining equilibrium for both aquariums. My sensors are in my pump chamber today in my current sump but worried when I move to the new sump in the basement, will it maintain proper water levels in both aquariums.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Really like your transition plan and now that I think about it, will do the same - run both sumps until I’m satisfied the new sump handles biolaod adequately.

Worried about the ato maintaining equilibrium for both aquariums. My sensors are in my pump chamber today in my current sump but worried when I move to the new sump in the basement, will it maintain proper water levels in both aquariums.

I would think as long as it's in the pump chamber that's the only level that changes

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

I'm running two seperate pumps in the same chamber, one for each tank to run independently, and also a bypass so if one pump goes down I could run both tanks off one pump by turning a few valves.

 

[PeterC99]

I'm running two seperate pumps in the same chamber, one for each tank to run independently, and also a bypass so if one pump goes down I could run both tanks off one pump by turning a few valves.

Really like the redundancy you have setup. Thinking about replicating.