SERIOUS TIPS to keep healthy zoas in the long run wanted, please.

[A. grandis]

:horn:Hello all,

I'm opening this thread to gather information from all zoa keepers.
What would be the best tips you would give to keep zoas healthy/ happy/ growing in the long run?
Experiences, failures, choices...
Light, water flow, target feeding, water chemistry, temperature, placement, quarantine, etc, etc, etc...

Please choose the most important subjects you can think of and post your thoughts.
Lets have a nice collection/exchange of info here, shall we? :thumb:
Hope so.

Grandis.
eace:

 

[andrew reeves]

well i HAD a LOT of different zoas in my tank and they started withering away...... now im down to just a few that are still hanging on. Turns out it is amphipods eating them. Not every type of amphipod will eat zoas and im sure someone will try to argue that no amphipods eat zoas but i can assure you that mine got ate by amphipods and im battling getting rid of them. They appear larger than regular pods and it seems like a 6 line wrasse or a mandarin will neither one eat these things.

 

[A. grandis]

Hey andrew reeves,

Yes, there are different types of amphipods. Some are herbivores, some carnivores and some of them are omnivores.
Most of the zoa eaters' amphipods are carnivores and are big. They normally have a transparent, beige, caramel coloration and look rough.
I never had the problem before but I know people had good luck with wrasses, but as you've seen, not all wrasses would eat them either.
Perhaps you should try a bigger wrasse or do a search on the subject...

Thanks for posting...
Good luck!

Grandis.

 

[BBoley24]

I have problems with changes with salinity. I am not the best when it comes to regulating my salinity levels as I use the classic swing arm and rarely check at that. But when it changes within a .002 - .004 swing, nearly every polyp in my tank closes up for a week at a time. I haven't lost any but it sure is annoying when a large colony looks like its about to kick the bucket for half of a month. I really should get better at that!

 

[A. grandis]

Well, salinity isn't a problem if you keep off the acceptable limits for the species you've got.
I found that 1.023 (SG) is a good number to keep it at for most polyps, generally speaking.
If you have it at 1.025 and it changes to 1.026 or higher I would think there is a problem, yes.
Same thing when you keep it at say 1.021 and it goes lower than that.
At 1.023 you'll have more room for the possible changes.
I would recommend you to get an auto top-off. You won't regret it, my friend!!! :smile:

Grandis.

 

[NanaReefer]

Zoas are the most unpredictable coral I've ever kept, period! There is NO perfect method to keeping them. While some seem to thrive under any conditions. The ones 2" away just disappear.
I've never been able to keep Kedds Reds nor Tubbs of Blue. But these lil buggers I can't kill!

Under actentic

Day lights

I refuse to buy any more zoas.

 

[Mr. D]

In my short, but not without friends with great experience I have found that in general, zoas prefer a "dirty" tank. By that I mean a tank with nitrates between 5-20ppm...most other levels at the low end as you'd expect of an established tank.

Lighting can be an issue depending on the type of zoa. The more higher end- the more light they seem to need (between ~70-400 par is probably a decent range). Could be wrong on the higher end there.

I keep a 20 gallon long DT with 10 gallon sump (no skimmer/running Chemipure elite). The only issues I've ever had with zoas are flatworms and aestria starfish (spelling?).

I've kept them first under LEDs (AI sol nano) with them getting between 150-roughly 300 par depending on the type, and now under a four bulb t5. I think they're doing better under the t5s now than they ever did under the AI sol nano IMO.

Hope that helps and please correct my mistakes.


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[A. grandis]

Hi NanaReefer:

Nice colony and a great picture of it!

I would have to tell you not to give it up!!!
There is more to zoa keeping then just trying them out without without carefully searching for what would be wrong in order to keep a specific species that you like.
If that colony is doing so great that means that you system is mature, at least.
Also, there is no predators nor any pest irritating the zoas. That's a very good beginning!!!!

I agree that "there is NO perfect method of keeping them", but there are many types of methods that you could apply to keep most species in a system with a regular maintenance schedule and a good stability, to begin with. Some of the basic rules of adaptation, transport and diseases prevention need to be applied on most cases in order to have a colony started.

I hope this thread could answer most questions you've got to keep the zoas you love most.
I'm sure others will come here with good subjects and tips they learned while searching for their answers too...
Your polyps are doing great! You should be more than happy!! :bigsmile:

Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

Hi Mr. D,

Well, IME the lower the nitrates and phosphates the better. I personally don't agree and don't believe with the "dirty tank" being the best for any type of cnidarians in closed systems. By "dirty tank" I refer to: excess food, dissolved organics, detritus, yellow water and including algae nutrients (silicates, phosphates and nitrates), without a great regular exportation of those. The opposite would be the optimal to keep zoas IMO.
All my zoanthids would do much better in the long run while kept well fed (there is so much to it!!) but with low nutrients and detritus in general. The absence of macro or micro algae also seems to help their general health and growth in closed systems. The presence of coralline algae is a good sign of the optimal water chemistry for SPS, which is also wonderful to keep most zoanthids in great shape.

Another good ramification of the subject is the maturity of the system. Some people think zoas like "dirty tanks" because when they have their tank mature enough their polyps begin to do better than before, which is true, but they relate that to the presence of readable nitrates. I would think that's a mistake. Other factors would contribute to the zoas growth/reproduction/healthy when the tank reaches it's maturity and so on. The presence of nitrates could be just a coincidence in many cases.

I know some fellow aquarists that broadcast feed heavily and have relatively high nitrates with that and they have a great system for years. Those type of systems need lots of regular partial water changes/skimmers/chemical filtration to keep up with the excess of nitrates/phosphates.
I know also of tanks with ridiculous levels of nutrients and also great number of healthy zoa colonies, but with much less problems in regards to algae and infections. Something to think about...

This is a great subject and I would love to hear more from "nutrient rich" tanks in a long run.
Most of the time tanks will crash when kept with high nutrients for long periods of time, depending on the frequency of water changes, skimmer's ability, feeding amounts and number of fishes, as we all know already.

Grandis.

 

[lakeviewink]

I have learned through trial and error that most, not all, of my zoas, I have over 20 different kinds, really like more flow than I would have ever expected.

Now lighting is a different story. You have to find the sweet spot for each individual kind. In general though, they love mid to high light IMHO.

I keep mostly SPS and zoas so I feed a lot and do a lot of nutrient export, biopellets,skimmer, macro, GFO, and it's a fine line feeding enough for the zoas and not overdoing it for the SPS.

One last thing, I test for, and dose twice a week, iodide. The zoas love it. I learned this from fellow reef nerds and its true. Just make sure you test and don't overdose.

Just my .03

 

[A. grandis]

I have learned through trial and error that most, not all, of my zoas, I have over 20 different kinds, really like more flow than I would have ever expected.

:thumb: Yep, I agree with that, they do like mid to high flow!!

Now lighting is a different story. You have to find the sweet spot for each individual kind. In general though, they love mid to high light IMHO.

Yep, I hear you. I prefer to approach that with adaptation to the new light instead trying to figure out what they would "like" better. the reason for that is that the light in nature can't be compared to the light in the systems. Correct and careful adaptation could be a great way to have them in the system without any light shock, doing great. Some zoas could take a little longer to adapt to light then others but there is lots of variables to that too. Light adaptation works almost all the time IME, when all the other params and factors are checked out.

I keep mostly SPS and zoas so I feed a lot and do a lot of nutrient export, biopellets,skimmer, macro, GFO, and it's a fine line feeding enough for the zoas and not overdoing it for the SPS.

I don't have SPS, only zoas, and I'm not a great fan of biopellets, macros and GFO. I use only partial water changes and skimmer to export nutrients and wastes. Sometimes I can use GAC, depending how the system goes. Yes, I target feed the polyps often too. :tongue:
I've heard of many others that use all what you do with great success.

One last thing, I test for, and dose twice a week, iodide. The zoas love it. I learned this from fellow reef nerds and its true. Just make sure you test and don't overdose.


Just my .03

That's a great tip!!! Yep, iodine in the iodide form makes a big difference too. :nerd:
I use small amounts dosed 3 times a week.
Thanks for sharing!!!
Hope hear from many others...

Grandis.

 

[kfd]

What does it mean if I have transparent skirts on many polyps? they are sitting at the bottom of the tank.
nitrate 0, phosphate 0.08, cal 420, alk 6.8, running biopellet, temp at 78
they have new polyps every two weeks or so... but color is just .. .bleached... and it's just for zoa, not sps

 

[A. grandis]

What does it mean if I have transparent skirts on many polyps? they are sitting at the bottom of the tank.
nitrate 0, phosphate 0.08, cal 420, alk 6.8, running biopellet, temp at 78
they have new polyps every two weeks or so... but color is just .. .bleached... and it's just for zoa, not sps

First thing I would suggest to you is to remove the biopellets at once! Nitrates can be exported with partial water changes. Phosphates could be avoided choosing the right food and water changes/skimmer in most cases. Many people noticed their zoas "bleaching" with the use of biopellets and GFOs. Some others never had problems. I don't recommend and think it's not a necessary tool of phosphates/nitrates removal.

Zoas do need nutrients and they absorb it from the water, besides from the zooxanthellae and some food particles!! It doesn't need to be nitrates/phosphates in the high end, but nutrients, vitamins, amino acids and other elements should be in the system for them!! Again, a "dirty tank" won't make your zoas to glow and be happy!! A balanced system with a good maintenance schedule and partial water changes using a good salt mix could help you a lot. Make sure the alkalinity, pH and salinity are stable and within good ranges for a reef tank with SPS. You could try to bring your alkalinity a little higher than 6.8. Perhaps to 8. Your Ca could drop to 400ppm, if so. You could try that.

They don't need a " dirty tank", but a mature well maintained system to thrive.

Target feeding good quality coral foods will bring colors and fortify your zoas!!!
Foods like Coral Frenzy, Fauna Marin pellets and Reef Roids are among the best. You could try that too!
Avoid broadcast feeding and liquid foods. Also large particles and organisms won't be a good choice, like mysis or brine.
Most times they contain too much phosphates and little nutrients!! Too much water too!!
Excess food is not a good idea. They won't be able to eat too much anyway!!!

Light could cause bleaching, of course. Adaptation is very important.
You need to make sure you have good lights and good spectrum. Also, change your bulbs every year or so.
That could be also related to a temperature bleaching (not your case if you keep it around 78°F).

Many variable there, my friend. Go slow with them and keep the stability of the system without major/sudden changes...

Grandis.

 

[Akwarius]

I love threads like this! If you guys are anything like me, you may think you've got zoas figured out, and then, one day...poof! There goes your favorite colony or frag. What happened!? I gotta test everything...water change...dips...over-feed...under-feed...clean all the nooks and crannies, etc., etc. Settle down, Travis! Take a step back and breathe!

The key is to not overreact and adjust too many things at once. Not only will that make it more difficult to diagnose the problem, it is also very stressful to the delicate balance that your organisms depend on. Yes, all you pros out there, I know this is a common sense no-brainer but I still have to remind myself to say la vie (sp?) sometimes. I probably catch flak for this, but as hobbyists sometimes we are a little too obsessed in finding that missing piece of the puzzle, and forget about the basics.

The dirty little secret of zoa-keeping is that there is no secret. No magic bullet that will create that zoa garden that youve always dreamed of. Be skeptical of those who claim to have the missing ingredient (this means you vitamin C peeps). Practice the zen of fish tank maintenance, that is, know that your reef is totally unique, has its own special balance, and have faith that it will tell you what it needs. Without getting all hippy-dippy, I'm basically telling you to have total mastery over your artificial reef. Sounds easy doesnt it? For instance, I know that when I have more than one colony of closed polyps, then my phosphates may be too high. Test, wait a day, test again. Phosphates still too high? Then change the GFO. Another example: an established zoa colony starts pooping zoanthellae. Water may be too clean. Test nutrients and if its too clean (in my case NO3 below 1ppm) then the light penetrates the water more, causing mild light shock. There are dozens of little tricks like this that I will be releasing in my new Planet Zoa book, "Zoa Mastery" (just kidding!). My point is that if you are hyper-aware of the way your corals react to changes in water chemistry, then you can prevent a potential problem BEFORE that zoa starts to melt.

Here are some more invaluable tips that have helped me over the years. I share this because I really do (despite the fact that I sell zoas) want people to fully enjoy our little zoa friends.
1. Dont over-feed and employ a nutrient removal system that you can control easily and are comfortable with (this may or may not include skimmer, carbon source, media, reactors, siphoning, basting, etc.) An over-ambundace of waste will tick zoas off!
2. Setup a dedicated "sick bay" if you have more than a few zoas. This will allow you to keep an eye on troublesome polyps. I find it best to use a "sweet spot" in your system that has the most favorable flow and light. It also helps to have an area that is accessible so that you can perform daily dips on closed polyps. Its easy to procrastinate treating a sick frag or colony if its in a hard to reach area of the tank.
3. Iodine- I personally like dosing a drop of potassium iodide per 25-50 gallons daily. For me, this works well and is less harsh than Lugols. Also, in my opinion, iodine dips for zoas are ineffective.
4. Less tinkering. This is a no-brainer, but its sometimes hard to fight temptation. Less fragging and less relocating of zoas tends to help them establish and keep the immune system strong.
5. The next point may be somewhat controversial. I dose a teaspoon of dill pickle juice daily (totally kidding, DO NOT DO THIS!) But seriously, I am not convinced that zoanthids will grow infinitely in captivity. For me, its a very risky proposition to have a particular morph grow any larger than 15-30 polyps. Not only will a melting event be financially devastating, but its easily avoided by breaking that colony up into 3-4 smaller groups. That way if something happens to one, you have the others to fall back on. But hey, Im biased. I like to aquaculture and spray palytoxin all over the place.

If you made it this far, thanks for reading my long winded rant. Now zoa-keepers will never need new polyps and I can close up shop. Just remember to make changes slowly and trust your intuition.

 

[Loki]

I am glad I read this thread

Here is one I read in the last few days. I have 0 experience with this and it's not my idea (I can't remember where I read it or who wrote it)

This person had zoas that were closed up for some time. While using a turkey basted to remove food (or something) from around the closed polyp he accidentally shot a stream of water directly into the zoa and it opened up. He said it worked like a charm for him. I don't remember if he did it for the rest of the closed polyps or not, but I found it really interesting. Enough so to log it in my brain

I have been rather successful with zoas and have only had one melt that I remember. The JF Bloodshot. With its price tag I have yet to try it again although I would like to.

Travis I've never thought about the # of polyps in a bunch being an issue until I recently looked at one of mine that has grown off of the plug and over the rock (maybe 50-75 polyps or more) and I realized that they were not as open as they should be. It's almost like they ran out of room and were taking up to much space for the new zoas forming. So I popped the original plug out of the rock work and gave it away at our local meeting. The ones around the plug have opened up again. So I will look into cutting some more out . I'd much rather have 30 big nice happy polyps than 70 half open ones.


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[Akwarius]

Loki,

Im certainly not claiming that there is any magic number for polyp count. Just that its smart to have a contingency plan because I've seen colonies go fast.

And for petes sake- I would be careful dishing out zoa enemas!

 

[Loki]

Lol like I said it wasn't me but I though it was interesting . My zoas were to crowded. I have another group that's doing this so I may break up and see what happens.

I had never thought about the zoa enema, I do enough of those at work lol.


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[weaponsofmassdesign]

Thanks for the tips Travis! I made it all the way through your rant!

 

[BBoley24]

Loki - that was me with the target feeder deal. It's funny because that half of the Zoanthid is still open and the other half hasn't opened yet! BUT, it's incredible that it has survived this long being closed up and having an algae attack on it's side. I think having a partial opened Z/P inorder to gain nutrients and light is better than a closed one. IMO

Travis, I learned more in one rant than I have in 15 years collecting different Z/Ps. PlanetZoa is now on my radar! Also, what iodine supplements do you use to dose?

 

[Loki]

What are you guys talking about a rant? That was a lesson


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