Should I add phosphate to help lower my nitrates?

[AbsoluteZer0273]

It is dead dry rock. It was mined from Florida inland somewhere. I wasn’t from the ocean. Well at least not for a few million years, so they say. I did add aqua Bella bacterial to start and when that seemed to fail I added microbactor 7. For flow I have a return of roughly 1300gph. Calculated by actually measuring the flow rate/time. Pump says it’s good for more, but that never seems to be the case after head pressure and elbows. I also have a 2x pp-20 wave makers, which run at full power. They are rated at somewhere around 5500gph.

 

[mcarroll]

OK, makes more sense then. Dead rock can take forever to get going, especially if there are any wrinkles during startup.

When you say PO4 measures "<0.25 ppm" would you say that the color is closest to zero (clear) or closer to the color for 0.25 ppm?

If it's unclear, then get a better test. But if the answer is closest to zero, then start dosing PO4.

Begin with enough to go from zero to 0.10 or 0.20 ppm and check it with your kit....you should be able to see a difference. If you target 0.20 ppm you might even see the color for 0.25 ppm.

Check PO4 again 24 hours later to see how much was consumed and gauge your next dose by that. If none was consumed, don't dose more.

What did it mean for the AquaBella to fail? Bacteria in a bottle are only going to do so much – they're just a starting point.

 

[AbsoluteZer0273]

I would say the test read almost 0ppm. The aqua Bella claims no water change for a year. After 6 months my nitrates never came down.

 

[mcarroll]

I would say the test read almost 0ppm.

Then you know your "marching orders". Get to the PO4 store - pronto!

The aqua Bella claims no water change for a year.

Caveat emptor on that one. "If it seems too good...."

 

[Stigigemla]

The easiest way of correcting bad values int the water is to change it. I would recommend 10% every second day. Mix the water day 1, let it stand to the next day with air or a little pump in the wessel and change the water the next day. 10 water changes of 10% will reduce your nitrate and phosphate to a third. I take it for granted that you use only osmosis water. You have so much nitrate in the water that i would not do larger waterchanges in order not to schock the animals.
There are only 2 Phosphate tests in the market thats worth to use. Its the Hanna Checker low range phosphate and the Hanna Checker phosphorous tester.

Your a pretty new reefer so i recommend to use the KISS method. Keep It Simple Stupid. Do everything the simpliest way possible. When the Reef is up and working the way it should its time to think about how to correct some things like using biopellets or vodka or anything else. Dont add any fancy stuff before you you have a special issue to use it for.

Biopellets and vodka is basically the same thing. Dosing organic carbon to grow bacteria you can skim out. If one method dont function the other will not because its the same kind of bacteria you grow.
If phosphate or nitrate is zero (or some trace elements) the bacteria will die. You need an efficient skimmer. And if you are using any kind of phosphate remover it blocks the bacterial growth.

Im not certain if your rock can contain some pollutants as it mined inland. For safety water changes. Does snails and hermits survive. If they are doing well i beleive the stone is OK.
There are some methods of keeping a reef without water changes but they are not for beginners. You should train your eyes a few years before thinking of that.
Normally (sad to say this) new reefers add to much fish to fast in a new tank.

Go back in the forums and check old threads from for instance Mike Paletta of the KISS method.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The easiest way of correcting bad values int the water is to change it. I would recommend 10% every second day. Mix the water day 1, let it stand to the next day with air or a little pump in the wessel and change the water the next day. 10 water changes of 10% will reduce your nitrate and phosphate to a third. I take it for granted that you use only osmosis water. You have so much nitrate in the water that i would not do larger waterchanges in order not to schock the animals.

Water changes are often a very inefficient way to export phosphate because even a 100% change won't drop it to zero because there's always a substantial reservoir attached to calcium carbonate surfaces.

 

[Stigigemla]

Thats very true. But there was no succes by using biopellets and nopox just made an ammonia problem.
So i think there is a risk of phosphate level being close to zero.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thats very true. But there was no succes by using biopellets and nopox just made an ammonia problem.
So i think there is a risk of phosphate level being close to zero.

I don't see how NOPOX can increase ammonia.

But I do agree that if phosphate does bottom out, it can be hard to reduce nitrate with macroalgae, ATS, or organic carbon dosing. In such a scenario, adding phosphate can help.

 

[mcarroll]

I don't see how NOPOX can increase ammonia.

I think the increased animal load was behind the ammonia....I'm not entirely sure how the carbon dosing fits in either. Any explanation I can come up with seems pretty esoteric.

 

[mcarroll]

(false ammonia reading, carbon spiking growth in a weird bacteria, etc)

 

[AbsoluteZer0273]

Adding phosphate... very slowly!

 

[AbsoluteZer0273]

So I got some seachem flourish phosphorus planted tank additive. Started with the “beginner dose” that is supposed to raise it 0.05 mg/L. After a week the phosphate still tests at 0ppm, nitrates still at 80ppm. I did notice a bit more algae growth in the sump, but it is hair and the cheato is still shrinking. Just added 0.1 mg/L dose. Let’s see if next week the nitrate will start to drop as the algae gets thicker.

 

[spiraling]

So I got some seachem flourish phosphorus planted tank additive. Started with the “beginner dose” that is supposed to raise it 0.05 mg/L. After a week the phosphate still tests at 0ppm, nitrates still at 80ppm. I did notice a bit more algae growth in the sump, but it is hair and the cheato is still shrinking. Just added 0.1 mg/L dose. Let’s see if next week the nitrate will start to drop as the algae gets thicker.

If you are using the api then you are either at 0 or .25. One is low, one is quite high. Can you get a better test kit?

 

[AbsoluteZer0273]

I think a Hanna checker will be the next purchase!

 

[Pmj]

For me, adding phosphate absolutely helped lower nitrate. I had a similar experience using nopox and gfo and nitrates were always high with almost no po4. Never had any chaeto growth. After dosing, it took off and nitrate dropped dramatically. Definitely get a Hanna checker, and it's a pain to use but worth it.

 

[AbsoluteZer0273]

Test results today appear to be 0ppm phosphate and nitrates are lighter than yesterday. They appear to be between the 40-80ppm marks. Adding more phosphate tonight. We’ll see what we get tomorrow!

 

[spiraling]

a big water change before you add the phosphates will help reduce the nitrates even more.

 

[Stigigemla]

When you begin adding phosphate it is important to do the same every day. Its about to feed a large bacteria population.

@Randy I believe Nopox is Methyl alcohol, Vinegar and Glucose. What will happen to that in a very weak solution like saltwater if we have zero phosphate or nitrate?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

When you begin adding phosphate it is important to do the same every day. Its about to feed a large bacteria population.

@Randy I believe Nopox is Methyl alcohol, Vinegar and Glucose. What will happen to that in a very weak solution like saltwater if we have zero phosphate or nitrate?

The detailed analysis I say showed it to be mostly ethanol and acetic acid (as in vinegar), with smaller amounts of methanol and isopropanol, and no glucose. Possibly just a mix of denaturaed ethanol and vinegar/acetic acid.

It will get taken up by something, unless we are talking about extreme low N or P and pretty high doses (tank would be suffering from low N or P). But I have no big concern about those if they did accumulate and couldn't be used.

 

[AbsoluteZer0273]

Last night I added 0.20mg/L phosphorus and these are the result tonight. Looks like 0ppm phosphate still and the nitrates are still between 40-80ppm. Adding another 0.20mg/L tonight. We’ll see what tomorrow brings!