Should I Dose Nitrates?

[Brew12]

I just don't worry about cyano the way I'd worry about dinos. :)

Fair enough. Can't disagree with that!

Came home from work Friday and the mother-in-law had come over earlier. The house smelled like a lavender garden. I opened the windows to air the house out, but the damage was done.

Saturday morning the water was cloudy and I had sheets of blue-green cyano forming on the rocks. It was annoying, but I was never actually worried about it. It just took a little work and the cyano was gone by Sunday afternoon. No signs of it at all this morning.

Compared to Dino's, cyano is easy.

 

[atlfishes]

I've seen a deterioration in SPS corals, no frags, but colonies. Started with burnt tips, which probably occurred from alk moving from 8.5 to 10.5. At that time I did have an algae scrubber, which i was using to try and replace GFO reactor. Scrubber has been offline now for probably 2-3 months now. Alk is being monitored closer now through KH Guardian that can control CA reactor. Historically i never gave any thought to nitrates since they never registered and focus was always on PO4. I"ve always been in the camp of let the fish provide the nutrients and supplement with some coral feedings.

It brought to light the issue that i may not be providing enough nutrients to the corals. Corals have lost color. After reading more, it appears to be more common to start dosing nitrates. I suspect 9 of 10 reefers should not, but for mature reefs it could make sense. If by raising nitrates, I could also increase the consumption of PO4, maybe I can kill the GFO as well.

 

[bdare]

Hi Randy,

Can you explain this? I wasn't aware low nitrates caused Dinos.

Thanks,
Ben

 

[bdare]

Double post

 

[shred5]

Hi Randy,

Can you explain this? I wasn't aware low nitrates caused Dinos.

Thanks,
Ben

It doesn't.. lots of people have low nitrates and no dinos.

 

[MTBake]

I run my skimmer 24/7 and dose. I'm dosing nitrates and phosphorus. I've noticed a difference in sps coloration compared to when dosing was started. The amounts dosed are starting to diminish to keep levels where needed. Some new growth has also popped up on frags that have stalled out on me. Nothing else was changed except the dosing.

Test daily if you do start dosing. I also recommend getting an accurate phosphate checker as there is a balance to maintain.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hi Randy,

Can you explain this? I wasn't aware low nitrates caused Dinos.

Thanks,
Ben

Very low nutrients appears to be a risk factor for dino’s, and if you get dinos, raising nutrients often helps.

While there may be multiple possible explanations, I think a likely one is that things which can outcompete dino’s at higher nutrient levels (perhaps algae) cannot do so at lower nutrient levels, and I suspect that competition may often be for a limiting trace element (which would be why water changes can make dino’s worse).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It doesn't.. lots of people have low nitrates and no dinos.

A lot of people smoke and do not get lung cancer. But smoking is still a risk factor for lung cancer.

 

[Brew12]

Hi Randy,

Can you explain this? I wasn't aware low nitrates caused Dinos.

Thanks,
Ben

It doesn't.. lots of people have low nitrates and no dinos.

Very low nutrients appears to be a risk factor for dino’s, and if you get dinos, raising nutrients often helps.

While there may be multiple possible explanations, I think a likely one is that things which can outcompete dino’s at higher nutrient levels (perhaps algae) cannot do so at lower nutrient levels, and I suspect that competition may often be for a limiting trace element (which would be why water changes can make dino’s worse).

I feel there is a fine line between having undetectable nitrates and being nitrate limited. If your system is at zero nitrates but it is all consumed by beneficial algae, great. If your algae growth is nitrate limited it seems to open the door to cyano and dino's.

That my take.

 

[shred5]

I feel there is a fine line between having undetectable nitrates and being nitrate limited. If your system is at zero nitrates but it is all consumed by beneficial algae, great. If your algae growth is nitrate limited it seems to open the door to cyano and dino's.

That my take.

There are and have been tons of UNLS systems out there with no algae and zero nitrates with out dinos.
If you have issues With dino raising nutrients to grow green algae to compete with dinos does work I wrote about it like 15 years ago...
But there is no way having low or zero nitrates causes dinos.

 

[Brew12]

There are and have been tons of UNLS systems out there with no algae and zero nitrates with out dinos.
If you have issues With dino raising nutrients to grow green algae to compete with dinos does work I wrote about it like 15 years ago...
But there is no way having low or zero nitrates causes dinos.

I didn't say having low or zero nitrates caused dino's. I said it opens the door making it a possibility they can thrive. Isn't the concept behind ULNS to keep both nitrate and phosphate at or near zero? ULNS's work because they create multiple limitations to prevent cyano, dino's and algae.

 

[SteadyC]

You can run your skimmer 24/7, just run it in dry skim, turned down to not skim a lot where the bubbles reach the bottom of the neck versus at the top of the neck and spill over in the collection cup more.

 

[bdare]

I have a friend. I'm trying to help him with his tank. He has ZERO nitrates or phosphates. Both checked with either Salifert or Hana checker. He can't grow cheato to save his life. Has bought some on several occasions and it eventually just melts.

Chalices are bland looking. Zoas fluctuate between shrinking and kinda growing.

Currently running GFO and GAC in a BRS reactor and a skimmer that runs 24/7.

Tank has been running for about 17 months.

Maybe he should add some fish? Take carbon / GFO offline?

 

[Brew12]

I have a friend. I'm trying to help him with his tank. He has ZERO nitrates or phosphates. Both checked with either Salifert or Hana checker. He can't grow cheato to save his life. Has bought some on several occasions and it eventually just melts.

Chalices are bland looking. Zoas fluctuate between shrinking and kinda growing.

Currently running GFO and GAC in a BRS reactor and a skimmer that runs 24/7.

Tank has been running for about 17 months.

Maybe he should add some fish? Take carbon / GFO offline?

I would definitely take the GFO off line, or at least reduce how much GFO is in it. I don't see any reason to stop using carbon.

I would start there and I would also look at adding fish if that fits their stocking goals.

 

[TexasTodd]

So, to nitrates and phosphates do that? Raise nitrates and phosphates will drop?
I too have been out for about 5 years. My last tank was amazing and only used a very big skimmer, had a 24/7 kalkwasser drip for evaporation, skimmed very wet, and added some Mg and salt mix (to offset the wet skimming). That was it, amazing growth and color.
But, I like the idea of being able to bring phosphates down and improve colors at the same time.

 

[Rauland]

I have an SPS dominate tank with almost no nitrates. Can anyone tell me how to dose nitrates?

 

[SteadyC]

I have an SPS dominate tank with almost no nitrates. Can anyone tell me how to dose nitrates?

You first can try feed more, feeding adds nitrate through the food as well as fish poop. Otherwise, I saved this from @Randy Holmes-Farley
It is fine to dose nitrate. I'd dose to 2 ppm, and do that as often as needed to get a level of 2 ppm to show on a kit. This calculator shows how much is needed of certain additives:
http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/calculator.htm

I'd use food grade sodium or potassium nitrate (I prefer sodium). Both are available online.

 

[Rauland]

You first can try feed more, feeding adds nitrate through the food as well as fish poop. Otherwise, I saved this from @Randy Holmes-Farley
It is fine to dose nitrate. I'd dose to 2 ppm, and do that as often as needed to get a level of 2 ppm to show on a kit. This calculator shows how much is needed of certain additives:
http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/calculator.htm

I'd use food grade sodium or potassium nitrate (I prefer sodium). Both are available online.

Thank you!

 

[Reef Jedi]

You first can try feed more, feeding adds nitrate through the food as well as fish poop. Otherwise, I saved this from @Randy Holmes-Farley
It is fine to dose nitrate. I'd dose to 2 ppm, and do that as often as needed to get a level of 2 ppm to show on a kit. This calculator shows how much is needed of certain additives:
http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/calculator.htm

I'd use food grade sodium or potassium nitrate (I prefer sodium). Both are available online.

I too have a ULNS with Nitrates at 0 and Phosphates at 000. Nitrates tested with a Red Sea pro kit. Phosphates tested with a Hanna low range checker. I have been debating if 0 on both are good at all. I have a pair of clowns and a springer damsel. 2 fire shrimp and a heavy stocked mixed reef. Dosing AquaForest component 1+2+3 55ml of each daily. Haven’t done a W/C in 6 months as well. Also dosing Red Sea A&B daily with reef roids 2 times a week. I also over feed for the fish stock. 1 cube brine, 1 cube mysis. Both Hakari Brand. I also don’t pre wash the food in hopes it adds nitrates. I am getting really good sps color and growth. How ever my gsp and coraline growth is very slow. Kh is maintained at 8.4, Ca 430, mg 1400. These numbers don’t flux because I dose 6 times a day with an Eshopps doser. I’m wondering what else I could do to get a faster coraline growth and accelerate gsp growth. Im thinking 0 no3 and phos are causing more issues with growth. Any input would be awesome! It’s a 30g with a 20g sump plumbed to the basement. I also get some chaeto growth but it’s slow.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I too have a ULNS with Nitrates at 0 and Phosphates at 000. Nitrates tested with a Red Sea pro kit. Phosphates tested with a Hanna low range checker. I have been debating if 0 on both are good at all. I have a pair of clowns and a springer damsel. 2 fire shrimp and a heavy stocked mixed reef. Dosing AquaForest component 1+2+3 55ml of each daily. Haven’t done a W/C in 6 months as well. Also dosing Red Sea A&B daily with reef roids 2 times a week. I also over feed for the fish stock. 1 cube brine, 1 cube mysis. Both Hakari Brand. I also don’t pre wash the food in hopes it adds nitrates. I am getting really good sps color and growth. How ever my gsp and coraline growth is very slow. Kh is maintained at 8.4, Ca 430, mg 1400. These numbers don’t flux because I dose 6 times a day with an Eshopps doser. I’m wondering what else I could do to get a faster coraline growth and accelerate gsp growth. Im thinking 0 no3 and phos are causing more issues with growth. Any input would be awesome! It’s a 30g with a 20g sump plumbed to the basement. I also get some chaeto growth but it’s slow.

I would raise nutrients to target levels of about 0.02-0.03 ppm phosphate and a few ppm nitrate. :)