Shout Out: Smallest Tank, Biggest Tang and YOU!

[Jon Fishman]

Yeah, that's nice..... Not to derail, but the 'flow' and color you get from a nice GSP is amazing.... I guess since it grows like a weed and it's not $700 for a dime-sized frag nobody wants it........ One of things that I stare at every time I go into my local shop is a rock that is about 18" across and covered with GSP..... live rock included it's $180..... probably 25+ lbs of very established live-rock alone. Oh how I've thought about treating myself!

 

[Bossman]

I really like it too. As long as I can control its growth somewhat. I have a night light setting on my tanks which is UV I believe. The GSP flouresces and flows. Quite hypnotic. Until it closes up.

 

[ca1ore]

Pretty sure his post was also a joke ;-)

Ah but my comment was tongue in cheek ....

 

[vetteguy53081]

 

[Sistawolf]

I agree with another post.. tang police need to CHILL.. I get loving a specific fish and wanting to make sure that they are living in specific conditions and all. But what gets me.. when myself or anyone has a question about their tang or tangs.. and you get a notification that someone has taken their time out and actually posted on your question at hand.. only to get back online to get blessed out and you have to ask them for your butt back.. it’s ridiculous.. some of the “police” are down right mean.. it makes me want to say mean ugly things back.. like write me a ticket and I will see you in court.. seriously lighten up

Ps I’m sorry I know my post isn’t really sticking to the subject.. but I’m happy Rev started this.. so I could at the very least FINALLY get that off my chest.. lol

 

[seamonster]

We do have the Tang Police on standby so whatch yourselves!

With so many tank sizes and so many tang (surgeonfish) varieties available it's inevitable that this topic will be open to user interpretation and opinion. This topic is going to be about what you believe and why! So I'll lead this discussion off with a couple of questions.

1. What's the smallest tank you think is suitable for a tang (surgeonfish)?

2. Why do you think the certain size tank you answered above is the smallest a tang should be housed in?

I chose 50 or larger because one can keep a kole tang or any of the smaller bristletooth tangs in a 50 gallon tank easily. However, the rockwork has to be open and the fish population should be kept to a minimum... For all the other species ( yellow, sailfin, pbt, powder brown, scopas, etc) 100 and up for sure. I currently have a kole and a pbt in my 4 foot, 125 gallon tank. They are thriving, fat and sassy! and btw, i went for the ich eradication approach. I went fallow for 90 days, and i qt everything now. There is no ich or velvet in my system.

 

[Big E]

I think most people are smart enough to use good judgement.

I always think about this..............

A well thought out 60g tank can have more swimming room than a 200g tank that is filled wall to wall with corals. No one ever seems to consider this and most of those stacked large tanks will have numerous tangs.

 

[RobW]

Made me laugh. I agree. Not sure how one tells that a fish is happy versus unhappy anyhow. Stressed or not stressed perhaps .... but happy? More anthropomorphism me thinks.

Yeah it's not like they are going to look at you, smile then swim to the top of the tank and give you a high five! Then say thanks for all the good work!

 

[Retro Reefer]

According to NOAA there are approximately 352,670,000,000,000,000,000 gallons of water in the ocean, I’m not sure how anyone justify saying one particular size tank is any better than any another, in the grand scheme of things none would truly be sufficient. I kept a powder brown and a yellow tang in a old school 55 with wall of rock and limited swimming room for close to 10 years with no issues and I currently know someone that has had a yellow tang in a 30 tall for around 4 years, although it makes me cringe the tang seems extremely happy and is probably the most vivid yellow and fattest tang I have ever seen.

 

[DSC reef]

This was our sohal tang we grew for years from a juvenile to adult in a 125, he was rehomed to a 3000 gallon show tank

 

[Jon Fishman]

I’m not sure “fat” automatically equals “happy and healthy”

 

[DSC reef]

I’m not sure “fat” automatically equals “happy and healthy”

Lol. That fish was very healthy, never had to be medicated, never had a disease. But I guess if it had 2 more feet of tank it would mean its "happy"? Were the ones that saw the fish and hand fed and even pet him daily. Thanks but that fish was very healthy as you can see in the pic. My fish never laughed so I guess we can't say he was happy but the new owner never reported him laughing in the monster tank he went into so....

 

[Crabs McJones]

This was our sohal tang we grew for years from a juvenile to adult in a 125, he was rehomed to a 3000 gallon show tank

Beautiful fish! I really like how you can see both the fish's growth and the clams growth in the pictures ( i assume thats the same clam)

 

[DSC reef]

Beautiful fish! I really like how you can see both the fish's growth and the clams growth in the pictures ( i assume thats the same clam)

Thanks crabs! The first clam was a derasa which we rehomed because it grew to fast but the second was the squamosa we had for many years.

 

[webmanny]

I’m not sure “fat” automatically equals “happy and healthy”

My doctor keeps telling me the same thing... I have to get it here too??? LOL

 

[REEFIN RIOS]

It all depends on the size of a tang. How are you gonna put a baby tang under 1.5in with a bunch of big fish in a 200g. 2 variables the size of fish Correlates to the size of the tank. It’s just that simple. And common sense goes a long way too. IMO

 

[Dancingmad]

Had a yellow tang for over 10 years slowly die of HLLE. I speculate wildly its because it lost of a lot of swimming room due to coral growth and my clownfish starting to spawn regularly (and get more territorial) since there is/was no issue w/ my water chemistry, use of carbon, or diet.

This was in a 150 Wide-Tall (4 feet long), pillar aquascape (to be further refined soon!). I ain't the tang police, and wouldn't presume to tell anyone how to stock their reef. For me - I'm not going to tang ever again. These jokers can live for a long, long time and don't feel like I did my buddy justice.

I wish there were some alternative algea eating fish that are as effective as a Zebrasoma tang though. They can really get into those nooks and crannies. Accepting recommendations

 

[MnFish1]

First off, everyone is referencing all these studies..... without referencing or linking the actual studies lol. The only study I know of referencing tang range being closer to .5-1KM was done in Hawaii with Yellow Tangs, so hardly encompassing of ALL tangs. Literally 1 species was studied.... not even an entire Genus. These studies have been referenced 6-7 times in this thread alone, not a single link to the actual study. I wonder who actually read it, and who is just parroting info about this study they heard about, that happens to reinforce their preconceived ideas about stocking? I'd venture the latter part of my previous statement is the vast majority.

Secondly, as I specifically mentioned, Elliot's statement is specifically regarding Acanthurus Tangs who have been known to have ranges of multiple miles. He is really referencing Achilles Tangs, but acanthurus tangs in general tend to require similar amounts of room and have similar temperaments in captivity. But the general principals regarding keeping them applies to all of them in my opinion.

First - I linked the studies in the posts. There were 3 of them. The second looked at several species of tangs - and angels and triggers, etc etc. I posted the study - and read the whole thing. Second - I find it somewhat odd that in the first paragraph - you say its not appropriate to generalize one study of one type of tang - in the second paragraph you generalize Elliot's statement about acanthus tangs to 'all of them'. Please note that there are links to each study in each post

In any case - here are the posts with the linked studies:

I just read an article that put micro transmitters on fish. It was quite interesting. This was over hundreds of days (i.e. not just one day) - in multiple species of fish. Trigger fish traveled as far as surgeonfish - many others traveled far more. If I'm reading the graph correctly - which is somewhat confusing - over a 1 day -2 day period - one surgeon fish traveled about 1 km. over many days up to 5 km. Trigger fish somewhere in between. This doesnt 'prove' anything - except to say - many fish travel long distances 'over time'. But at least according to this article - they tend to remain in local areas - and travel to avoid predation - or obtain food. (I believe the tang used was a blue tang) - here is the data for anyone interested.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4010402/

FYI - in case anyone is interested - another article on fish 'home turf' - this one a bit more recent and has specific species of tang, angel, etc etc. FWIW the goal of the study was to determine /help determine whether marine preserves were helping (ie.. if fish routinely swam outside - should the boundaries be increased. Also FWIW - there is a lot of overlap between tangs and other fish we keep in aquaria when it comes to 'home range'. Some tangs more than others.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/brv.12155

BTW - there is another article out there that says tangs are extremely long-lived - up to 41 years for yellow tangs. That though they can get to be xxx inches - that in reality - what happens is that growth when they are young is fast - then this slows down and they slowly get bigger over long periods of time. This may help bridge the gap between those saying 'they get to be xxx inches so should be in a bigger tank' - and those that say they have no problems.

From the article:
This is particularly important for species such as surgeonfish, where the characteristic square growth curve (fast initial growth that reduces rapidly after the first few years) and high longevity effectively decouple size and age for most of the lifespan (Hilborn & Walters 1992, Choat & Axe 1996, Berumen 2005, Trip et al. 2008).

https://www.int-res.com/articles/meps2009/389/m389p245.pdf

 

[MnFish1]

First off, everyone is referencing all these studies..... without referencing or linking the actual studies lol. The only study I know of referencing tang range being closer to .5-1KM was done in Hawaii with Yellow Tangs, so hardly encompassing of ALL tangs. Literally 1 species was studied.... not even an entire Genus. These studies have been referenced 6-7 times in this thread alone, not a single link to the actual study. I wonder who actually read it, and who is just parroting info about this study they heard about, that happens to reinforce their preconceived ideas about stocking? I'd venture the latter part of my previous statement is the vast majority.

Secondly, as I specifically mentioned, Elliot's statement is specifically regarding Acanthurus Tangs who have been known to have ranges of multiple miles. He is really referencing Achilles Tangs, but acanthurus tangs in general tend to require similar amounts of room and have similar temperaments in captivity. But the general principals regarding keeping them applies to all of them in my opinion.

By the way - it's interesting that you didn't respond to the points made or in fact any of the multiple posts that suggest that you may be incorrect (or that Elliott may be incorrect). To me - the key is if you buy a tang or any other fish and put it in a tank - if it seems to be exhibiting behavior that suggests its 'stressed' or being bullied - re-home it - same as if its bullying the other members of the tank. Of course common sense would seem also to be key - ie a nurse shark in a 5 gallon. tank is not going to work.

I still don't understand the logic whereby people focus on tank size for tangs (and ignore it for other fish - ie why are there no trigger police?). I don't understand why people say 'only keep 1 tang even in a large tank' when they are 'schooling fish' in the wild. Are single fish in a large tank as 'unhappy' as a tang in a small tank? Are any of our fish as happy as they would be in the wild? Or - due to lack of predation easy food, constant conditions are they 'happier'? Frankly - most people (including the people who say its ok to keep tangs in 40 gallon tanks) are justifying what they are doing because thats the size tank they have. Those that have larger tanks seem to want to pretend that they are doing it the 'right way'. But - and though I spent an hour trying to ask my tangs if they were happy or not last night - I didn't get an answer. The person with the 5 foot tank will say 'it needs to be 5 feet - at least', the person with the 6 foot tank will say '6 feet at least', and so on. To me the real answer is that most of the fish we keep in aquaria should be left in the ocean - but that would mean we wouldn't have much of a hobby left..

 

[Jon Fishman]

Many things often live longer in captivity than the wild. I was contemplating getting a fox, and they certainly live longer in captivity, but whether that makes them “happy” is not something I am sure can be answered