Sick fish looking for guidance

[4FordFamily]

The fact that he had a fish swimming in to the powerhead, am the film on the fish description, almost guarantees velvet is at least a component of this equation.

Velvet does immense damage very quickly, so it may be too late for many fish.

Those spots do look like ich to me and some reminiscent of black ich initially.

One thing is for sure, your poor fish need prayers and fast action!

Copper takes care of ich and velvet, black ich will require prazi if I recall.

 

[Empress]

I have not treated with Prazipro yet. The first medication I used was API Super ICK Cure. After that cycle I went into treating with cupramine. I miscounted earlier as tomorrow would be day 14 at full dose.
For testing Copper level I am using Seachem Multitest Copper.
Here is my test just completed today. Top right corner is the Quarantine water and to the left is the reference test solution (reference value is .5mg/l)

Your test looks good. Has the fish gotten BETTER since you started the cupermine? If not, then I would suggest trying Prazi.

But, please wait until the Doctors in the house come to your rescue before you change your treatment if needed. Where's Humblefish and Melypr???

 

[Empress]

X2 copper is not effective enough to be a reliable treatment for flukes.

2x Prazi.....not copper.

 

[stevo01]

Doesnt it look like its under the skin? Like a Parasite, cyst, or virus/Herpe? It looks larger than ich, and there isnt any penetration that I can see. Something burrowing in and then its healing over?

 

[bios]

Only for suggestion
Can you test ph, ammonia and no2 in the qt

 

[Brew12]

The fact that he had a fish swimming in to the powerhead, am the film on the fish description, almost guarantees velvet is at least a component of this equation.

Velvet does immense damage very quickly, so it may be too late for many fish.

Those spots do look like ich to me and some reminiscent of black ich initially.

One thing is for sure, your poor fish need prayers and fast action!

Copper takes care of ich and velvet, black ich will require prazi if I recall.

Black ich and flukes would have shown reaction with the FW dip he just did. Velvet and Ich should have cleared the visible signs after more than 7 days in copper.
It's possible that it is some kind of bacterial infection from damage caused by Ich or Velvet but I'm not comfortable making that diagnosis.

I agree the fish needs fast action, I just have no idea what that action should be. Probably being pulled from the copper and starting antibiotics but I'm not confident in recommending that.

 

[bios]

Like brew ford humble and Meredith and others I also thought to a pathology that probably is, what I don't understand is how it explode during a copper treatment that in any case have to slow it
I suppose that fishes are suffering some very stressful Conditions due probably to water condition and this is my hypothesis

 

[Brew12]

Like brew ford humble and Meredith and others I also thought to a pathology that probably is, what I don't understand is how it explode during a copper treatment that in any case have to slow it
I suppose that fishes are suffering some very stressful Conditions due probably to water condition and this is my hypothesis

It is definitely worth checking. It is important to remember that with copper in the water the only way to test ammonia is with the Seachem Alert badge. It will not be possible to test nitrites, but that shouldn't matter too much. I would definitely recommend testing pH.

 

[Humblefish]

@3mm3 Can you upload a recent (post FW dip) photo of the fish?

 

[melypr1985]

Where's Humblefish and Melypr???

Sorry! I was at work all day. :( I'd also like to see a more recent picture of the fish - after the dip. I didn't see any flukes in the dip pictures and I don't think black ich is in play here. I'm wondering if copper isn't effecting this and the dots have been there for two weeks, then maybe it's something else entirely. My gut says that trying an antibiotic or even a formalin dip might be worth while.

 

[stevo01]

@3mm3 im sad for you and your tang. Im glad I read your thread as it may help me or someone in the future. I hope the fish doctors can save your fish!

 

[3mm3]

Sorry for the late reply everyone was a bad evening.
To answer some questions as far as PH, ammonia etc I am unable to give solid answers as of yet.
I'm guessing my ph is somewhere between 7.8 and 8.0 as my main system suffers from really low PH. I have to run a co2 scrubber to keep the reef healthy.
Before treating with Cupramine, with 3 fish in quarantine, my ammonia would slowly increase and by day 4 to 5 would spike to .5ppm. Before I began with Cupramine treatment I lost my other tang so I'm down to my last 2 fish. I took this into account and keep a water change rate of 50% every 2 to 3 days. All new water has Cupramine dosed prior to addition to the quarantine.
As for NO2 I can test this today.
Today is day 14 of Cupramine so I will begin removing the copper treatment with 50 percent water change, carbon and cuprasorb. Out of all my meds should I start Prazipro next? Also are there any I have that I can safely dose together?

Here is a picture I just took. He still looks bad. Also is a picture of my wrasse. He seems to be a very tough fish and only had a couple spots out of this entire ordeal.

 

[Empress]

Can you do a fresh water dip on video or a picture in the dip? Dots are too big for ich. Stop copper. I'm betting my $ on some type of external worm. Is he breathing heavy? Act fast.

 

[Empress]

Also do a dip for the wrasse too, please.

 

[melypr1985]

Here is a picture I just took. He still looks bad. Also is a picture of my wrasse. He seems to be a very tough fish and only had a couple spots out of this entire ordeal.

I'm thinking that since the copper isn't working and the freshwater dip didn't show anything revealing we should change directions. Antibiotics or a formalin dip (or both) should be the next step here.

 

[Brew12]

I'm thinking that since the copper isn't working and the freshwater dip didn't show anything revealing we should change directions. Antibiotics or a formalin dip (or both) should be the next step here.

I have a concern. It is most likely that this started out as Velvet based on this previous observation.

I am keeping the copper level at .5mg/l. It has been at this level for 10 days now.
I had noticed one of the fish kept swimming into the current(that fish was lost 9 days ago).
At times the hipo tang almost looks like it has a cloudy film on it. The spots had run a cycle on him three times now over the last 5 weeks.

If this is a bacterial infection because of the Velvet (which I think makes sense) is it too early to stop using copper?

 

[melypr1985]

I have a concern. It is most likely that this started out as Velvet based on this previous observation.



If this is a bacterial infection because of the Velvet (which I think makes sense) is it too early to stop using copper?

Good catch... yes. In that case, copper should continue for another 2 weeks. BUT, we can combine kanaplex or Furan 2 with the copper so that he's getting treatment for both problems. Of course, the copper can stop if they are switched to a sterile QT... then antibiotics can start.

 

[Humblefish]

I don't think that's a parasite (ex. ich, velvet) or a worm (ex. flukes). If you look closely at the first photo he just posted, the white "things" are a little stringy and protruding outward. Reminds me of the mystery disease (pics below).

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[Brew12]

I don't think that's a parasite (ex. ich, velvet) or a worm (ex. flukes). If you look closely at the first photo he just posted, the white "things" are a little stringy and protruding outward. Reminds me of the mystery disease (pics below).

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That looks very similar!

Was this fish saved?

 

[Humblefish]

The irregular shape is another tell-tale sign. Ich trophonts are more oval shaped and range in size from 48 x 27 to 452 x 360 micrometers. Compare to photo of Hippo Tang with ich below.