Sick Tomini and Orchid Dottyback

[Piker]

Hello,

I've got a new Tomini Tang that stayed in an tank with two orchid dottyback before moving him to my main display. I have a good LFS who quarantines, so he was only there so that a smaller yellow tang could get comfortable in the display for a few days before him.

2 days after moving the Tomini, I noticed discoloration behind his fin. He's also making scratching movements... and occasionally extending his fin so that the yellow tang can pick at the side with the discoloration. Weird, right? I was trying to avoid removing him as he's moved 2 tanks in a week, so thought I'd dose the entire tank with prazipro and maybe follow up with metroplex.

Well, I just went to do a water change on the tank he was in for a short while and both of his tank mates appear to be missing scales. I've done a fresh water dip and didn't see anything obvious, but I don't know how small anything would be.

My Plan Right now:
I set a 10 gallon tank up for quarenteen of the dottybacks and tomini. I'm going to dose kanaplex and metro plex for 3 days with daily water changes.

When they return to their original tanks I'm going to run 2 or 3 cycles of prazipro to remove any parasites. (I don't have any worms I'd like to keep in either tank)

Does anyone have a good diagnosis or other suggestion? Is this a good treatment course? Thanks in advance.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Im seeing signs of aggression rather than illness. Assure water quality is good. melafix would work well on skin as well as kanaplex

 

[Piker]

Thanks for the feedback, we'd considered this as well. I'll separate the dottyback after 3 day treatment to be safe.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So - were the dottybacks fighting? I don't trust them together. The one in the pic looks like it has gotten tagged by another fish, and the other dottyback would be the only one to do that. The behavior you noted on the tomini sure indicates flukes, (the negative dip you gave it is the only thing that doesn't match) if possible, you should dose the entire tank with prazi, as the other fish have been exposed.

Jay

 

[artieg1]

My only other constructive thought here is that "quarantine" means a million different things to a million different people. I am not aware of any LFS that goes through a guarantied parasite-removal protocol (like TTM or 30 days in therapeutic copper with no new fish additions). It is just not remotely cost-effective to do that on scale, you have to do it yourself, and yes, it is a pain in the butt, that is why I am confident your LFS is not doing it for hundreds of fish (in hundreds of dedicated QT tanks?). So, while this does not look like your typical parasites, I don't think you can discount their possible infection notwithstanding.

 

[Piker]

So - were the dottybacks fighting? I don't trust them together. The one in the pic looks like it has gotten tagged by another fish, and the other dottyback would be the only one to do that. The behavior you noted on the tomini sure indicates flukes, (the negative dip you gave it is the only thing that doesn't match) if possible, you should dose the entire tank with prazi, as the other fish have been exposed.

Jay

These dottybacks had been together about 2 months, they chased at first but have been mating. Aggression is entirely possible still though. Either way I'm going to separate them, I've promised one to a friend if they survive. I will dose prazi to both of my main tanks, as the Tomini has been in both.

My only other constructive thought here is that "quarantine" means a million different things to a million different people. I am not aware of any LFS that goes through a guarantied parasite-removal protocol (like TTM or 30 days in therapeutic copper with no new fish additions). It is just not remotely cost-effective to do that on scale, you have to do it yourself, and yes, it is a pain in the butt, that is why I am confident your LFS is not doing it for hundreds of fish (in hundreds of dedicated QT tanks?). So, while this does not look like your typical parasites, I don't think you can discount their possible infection notwithstanding.

Thanks, the staff at this store has told me they wouldn't worry (they don't know this story though). Everything else I bring in will get quarantine and prazipro. My quarantine is too small for all of my fish so I'll have to dose my entire tank with prazi and hope these flukes aren't resistant. I really didn't want to put prazi in my display in the first place but it's obviously too late. In addition, I have a melanarous wrasse in there, and I've heard wrasse don't tolerate prazi so well, so I'll a 24 hour dip 3 times/flush the meds with carbon 3 times.

This is super annoying, I mean I've been informed about quarantine, but this lfs is the most trusted saltwater store in Michigan, it's an hour drive for us, so I assumed if any place is safe it is and pay more for fish there to avoid this process. I've never had an issue from there before. I know they run copper in some of their tanks and have a vet on hand.

I hate putting chemicals in a new tank. Oh well, too late.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

These dottybacks had been together about 2 months, they chased at first but have been mating. Aggression is entirely possible still though. Either way I'm going to separate them, I've promised one to a friend if they survive. I will dose prazi to both of my main tanks, as the Tomini has been in both.



Thanks, the staff at this store has told me they wouldn't worry (they don't know this story though). Everything else I bring in will get quarantine and prazipro. My quarantine is too small for all of my fish so I'll have to dose my entire tank with prazi and hope these flukes aren't resistant. I really didn't want to put prazi in my display in the first place but it's obviously too late. In addition, I have a melanarous wrasse in there, and I've heard wrasse don't tolerate prazi so well, so I'll a 24 hour dip 3 times/flush the meds with carbon 3 times.

This is super annoying, I mean I've been informed about quarantine, but this lfs is the most trusted saltwater store in Michigan, it's an hour drive for us, so I assumed if any place is safe it is and pay more for fish there to avoid this process. I've never had an issue from there before. I know they run copper in some of their tanks and have a vet on hand.

I hate putting chemicals in a new tank. Oh well, too late.

Wrasse aren’t sensitive to prazi. You do need to ensure good aeration when dosing it and watch for cloudy water. There aren’t prazi-resistant flukes, what happens is some flukes are egg layers and the prazi doesn’t kill the eggs- they hatch out later and reinfect the fish, thus the need for multiple doses.
Jay

 

[Westside Guy]

I have a beautiful orchid dottyback and for what its worth my LFS told me to only keep one dottyback in my Reefer 250's 54 gallon DT.

 

[Piker]

Wrasse aren’t sensitive to prazi. You do need to ensure good aeration when dosing it and watch for cloudy water. There aren’t prazi-resistant flukes, what happens is some flukes are egg layers and the prazi doesn’t kill the eggs- they hatch out later and reinfect the fish, thus the need for multiple doses.
Jay

I've done a lot of reading (on here actually) that's said some wrasse have died during or shortly after prazi. Same regarding some flukes resisting the medication. Most of the posts were circa 2010-2015. I'll defer to your advice though and treat the tank normally to be sure and get everything (after they spend 6 days in kannaplex/metroplex to take care of the discoloration).

I'm going to turn my second tank into a QT, and just put the smaller dottyback in the main display.

 

[Piker]

I have a beautiful orchid dottyback and for what its worth my LFS told me to only keep one dottyback in my Reefer 250's 54 gallon DT.

Yeah, you have to be careful. I was breeding them, I had 2 mated pair in this smaller tank breeding since last December with no issues (both introduced same day, both tiny). It also took 2 tries to accomplish this.

This case is a longer story, and wasn't so careful, so it could have been aggression… but none that I saw aside from some chasing the first 2 days, and no signs of damage for the first 2 months, I didn't see these issues till the tomini was introduced and removed.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I've done a lot of reading (on here actually) that's said some wrasse have died during or shortly after prazi. Same regarding some flukes resisting the medication. Most of the posts were circa 2010-2015. I'll defer to your advice though and treat the tank normally to be sure and get everything (after they spend 6 days in kannaplex/metroplex to take care of the discoloration).

I'm going to turn my second tank into a QT, and just put the smaller dottyback in the main display.

You definately can lose fish during prazi treatments, but it isn’t from the drug itself, but rather either bacterial decomposition of the prazi or it’s solvent lowering the dissolved oxygen, or in cases where there is a heavy fluke infestation, too many flukes drop off, and the fish bleed out.
Jay

 

[artieg1]

Dottybacks are ruthless. I used to have two orchid dottybacks. Now I have one.

 

[Piker]

Now I have one.

Yeah, they pick for sure, only on each other from what I've seen.

 

[Piker]

efinately can lose fish during prazi treatments, but it isn’t from the drug itself, but rather either bacterial decomposition of the prazi or it’s solvent lowering the dissolved oxygen, or in cases where there is a heavy fluke infestation, too many flukes drop off, and the fish bleed out.
Jay

If it were you Jay, would you return the tomini to the display even if his discolored spot is still there after 6 days being treated with kana/metro, and then treating the display with prazi? Or make sure the spot is gone before a return?

 

[Piker]

Another fish from my tank, I'm going to treat all of my tanks with prazipro. I'm done with this! Can someone confirm that the spots below and behind his eye are flukes? It looks so white in person that I thought he had sand stuck to his face. Thanks.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I find it very difficult to ID live flukes on the fish's body itself. Some species are simply too small to be seen that way. Neobenedenia is large enough, but unless they are on the fish's eye, their transparent color makes them hard to see.

Personally, I'd return the tomini and treat the whole tank with prazi - once a fish with flukes has been in the tank, all susceptible fish in there will be considered exposed. That said, not all flukes infect all species of fish.

Jay

 

[Piker]

After what he's put me through, I'm tempted to return him, he's mean to boot. Prazi is in the tank.

edit: all 3 of my tanks

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sorry, I see I wasn’t clear....I meant return the tomini to the DT, not the store...too early in the morning for me!

 

[Pistol Peet]

These dottybacks had been together about 2 months, they chased at first but have been mating. Aggression is entirely possible still though. Either way I'm going to separate them, I've promised one to a friend if they survive. I will dose prazi to both of my main tanks, as the Tomini has been in both.



Thanks, the staff at this store has told me they wouldn't worry (they don't know this story though). Everything else I bring in will get quarantine and prazipro. My quarantine is too small for all of my fish so I'll have to dose my entire tank with prazi and hope these flukes aren't resistant. I really didn't want to put prazi in my display in the first place but it's obviously too late. In addition, I have a melanarous wrasse in there, and I've heard wrasse don't tolerate prazi so well, so I'll a 24 hour dip 3 times/flush the meds with carbon 3 times.

This is super annoying, I mean I've been informed about quarantine, but this lfs is the most trusted saltwater store in Michigan, it's an hour drive for us, so I assumed if any place is safe it is and pay more for fish there to avoid this process. I've never had an issue from there before. I know they run copper in some of their tanks and have a vet on hand.

I hate putting chemicals in a new tank. Oh well, too late.

My LFS RUNS COPPER IN THERE FISH DISPLAY HOWEVER ITVIS NEVER DONE AT THERIPUTIC LEVELS my belief is they do this so when we come into the store the fish are swimming around and they look healthy because the copper that they are in and so that they can say they have copper in your system never have I seen it at therapeutic levels though in my opinion they do this to make fish look happy and healthy so they're easy to sell and so there's no visible signs of ich on them or anything else i truly hope everything works out for you.

 

[Piker]

Sorry, I see I wasn’t clear....I meant return the tomini to the DT, not the store...too early in the morning for me!

Glad that's your advice because I did exactly that.

Weird question and I know I'm just probably overly worried at this point... but how will prazi impact chaeto? Should I put egg crate on it to make sure its weighed down, so that the prazi gets EVERYTHING when I dose?