Sky high phosphates and 0.75 nitrates

[JoeD_]

I think the frozen food MAY be your issue in terms of higher phos. Try using a different food product and see if that helps at all.

 

[Bpb]

The issue with frozen vs dry phosphate addition is usually that frozen typically leads to more waste. You can drop pellets in one at a time and watch zero get wasted. With frozen it’s hard to have zero waste so there is usually a little more break down. I’ve not yet found a single dry food that doesn’t contain TSP though. So like Lasse said, by weight, flakes and pellets will have more. It’s just that more of it will be consumed and metabolized. I’m a big fan of LRS frozen foods as they don’t have any added soluble phosphate preservative.

 

[CoralWealth]

I am starting to think the frozen food is my issue too.

Especially since I add extra small things in it, such as rotifiers, fish eggs, etc. I may go back to feeding just large mysis and brine shrimp so a lot doesnt get wasted.

 

[EmptyWallet]

I generally mix my frozen food in a glass full of tank water, let it settle then suck 90% of the water out with a turkey baster/discard it then pour it into a second glass of tank water and repeat. This generally gets most of the phosphate out. By letting it settle all the 'specs' of food remain so the corals don't miss out.

 

[EmptyWallet]

I vaguely remember reading that regardless of whether the food goes to waste or gets eaten the phosphate component still eventually enters the water column. Put another way, the fish & scavengers can't process phosphate into something else, so it comes out in their poop

 

[Paul J]

Careful with Phosphate RX. Follow the directions on the box THEN half that number of drops and THEN half that number of drops. It works very well. I have tryed to find the sweet spot for weekly mantianace but no luck because of the amount and type of food I feed. So the sweet spot can't be found.
Plus you have control not like GFO.

 

[CoralWealth]

I generally mix my frozen food in a glass full of tank water, let it settle then suck 90% of the water out with a turkey baster/discard it then pour it into a second glass of tank water and repeat. This generally gets most of the phosphate out. By letting it settle all the 'specs' of food remain so the corals don't miss out.

This sounds like a good idea and I may have to try this out if I cannot lower the phosphate with RX and find my sweet spot.

Careful with Phosphate RX. Follow the directions on the box THEN half that number of drops and THEN half that number of drops. It works very well. I have tryed to find the sweet spot for weekly mantianace but no luck because of the amount and type of food I feed. So the sweet spot can't be found.
Plus you have control not like GFO.

Yeah I am using about 1/6 of the recommended dose. Last night it was at 65 ppb, so went down a little. Slow and steady is the way I am going about it. Alk demand continues to rise (I have a KH Guardian that is testing every 3 hours) My alk is getting lower a little every day even with me putting more C02 and kalkwasser in the tank, so that is good to see!

 

[Bpb]

The body uses phosphate it doesn’t need to be processed. We just add more than they need through preservatives. They get all they can use through the actual tissues they’re consuming.

 

[CoralWealth]

The body uses phosphate it doesn’t need to be processed. We just add more than they need through preservatives. They get all they can use through the actual tissues they’re consuming.

I am a little confused by what you are saying. You are saying when the fish eats the food, it doesnt produce phosphate? I thought it produces ammonia which then turns into nitrate, but maybe I am wrong and their waste produces phosphates?

 

[Big E]

Corals can take in ammonium (fish gills- breathing & some from urea) and the zoo processes that into nitrogen for the coral and or releases some of it.

This is an easy read---
http://www.yorku.ca/spk/fishbiol09/FB09lecture11.pdf

The phosphate can come from the food uneaten or any animal/fish that consumes food. I've read that fish that are done growing pass 90% of the phosphate(poop).

These two simple facts are why fish are the best dosers,.........so,have enough fish & feed them well. The fish food also has any amino acid the zoo can't produce for the coral on it's own.

What the corals don't take in is what you clean up with your export system.

 

[CoralWealth]

Corals can take in ammonium (fish gills- breathing & some from urea) and the zoo processes that into nitrogen for the coral and or releases some of it.

This is an easy read---
http://www.yorku.ca/spk/fishbiol09/FB09lecture11.pdf

The phosphate can come from the food uneaten or any animal/fish that consumes food. I've read that fish that are done growing pass 90% of the phosphate(poop).

These two simple facts are why fish are the best dosers,.........so,have enough fish & feed them well. The fish food also has any amino acid the zoo can't produce for the coral on it's own.

What the corals don't take in is what you clean up with your export system.

Thanks for this! I will definitely read that

 

[Rich Klein]

Chaeto Refugium works for me. I add an Iron Magnesium mix to support the Chaeto growth, but it removes Nitrates and Phosphates in a nice balance.

 

[intricate_reefer]

To be clear, I never found LC to have any issues or problems, only that it was not all that effective as concentrations of P got lower in the water. In the end, I was dosing 3x more than before and barely moving the needle... the filter sock would also not clog up as quickly.

I found this as well when using it

 

[vetteguy53081]

Overfeeding is often a contributor as is water introduced.
Have you used a TDS meter to see where your water is at?

 

[CoralWealth]

Overfeeding is often a contributor as is water introduced.
Have you used a TDS meter to see where your water is at?

Yeah I make sure I use 000 TDS, I have a 7 stage RO/DI

 

[Hans-Werner]

Your tank looks good and you have no problems. Chasing numbers means to create problems and most likely, if you continue like you suggested, you will have a lot of problems soon, like hair algae and cyanobacterial growth, slow growing or dying corals and maybe more.

If it is really phosphate and not phosphorus 90 µg/l (ppb) is all but sky high, it is only 0.09 ppm which in my eyes is in the optimum range.

Nitrate is most likely so low because you have growing corals and a good tank biology. This keeps nitrogen in flow and in the forms of ammonium, amino acids and other organic nitrogen compounds. Chasing numbers with nitrate may also create problems.

 

[Sallstrom]

This sounds like a good idea and I may have to try this out if I cannot lower the phosphate with RX and find my sweet spot.



Yeah I am using about 1/6 of the recommended dose. Last night it was at 65 ppb, so went down a little. Slow and steady is the way I am going about it. Alk demand continues to rise (I have a KH Guardian that is testing every 3 hours) My alk is getting lower a little every day even with me putting more C02 and kalkwasser in the tank, so that is good to see!

The lowering of alk might be the Lanthanum binding to carbonate.

 

[Hans-Werner]

@Sallstrom, I think the dropping of the KH is "normal" when removing phosphate and has nothing to do with improved coral growth. Accoring to new scientific findings moderate phosphate concentrations do not inhibit but increase coral growth. But phosphate inhibits calcium carbonate precipitation in the water. In this way water rich in phosphate "carries" more carbonates and more alkalinty. The reduced KH you see is most likely a purely inorganic physical-chemical reaction and has nothing to do with coral growth.

 

[Sallstrom]

@Sallstrom, I think the dropping of the KH is "normal" when removing phosphate and has nothing to do with improved coral growth. Accoring to new scientific findings moderate phosphate concentrations do not inhibit but increase coral growth. But phosphate inhibits calcium carbonate precipitation in the water. In this way water rich in phosphate "carries" more carbonates and more alkalinty. The reduced KH you see is most likely a purely inorganic physical-chemical reaction and has nothing to do with coral growth.

I agree. Don't think the alk is lowered by increased growth in this case.
Do you think the lanthanum also binds to carbonates?
And talking of La, do you think free La ions might be dangerous/do any harm to fish?

 

[Hans-Werner]

Yes, lanthanum binds to carbonates to form lanthanum carbonate. Lanthanum carbonate is nearly insoluble in water, so it also could precipitate carbonates directly. How much this could be could be calculated easily with simple stoichiometry.