Snails and Hermits dying?

[HowardJ02]

Hey guys, a little background- just moved a 29 gallon tank into a 20 gallon on Sunday after being out of the hobby since 2009.

I moved it over with a solitary clownfish, nothing else besides sand and rock. The tank had been set up for a while before I purchased it. The clownfish was doing well, so I went to the store to buy a few snails and hermit crabs.

After acclimating, I put the critters into the tank and it seems like they almost "died" instantly.
They were fine in acclimation, all moving around. But as soon as they went into the tank they just went dormant(?)

The hermit crabs were still alive. I removed the snails before I had to leave for work. When I came home on lunch, the hermits had not moved at all and my clownfish was kind of beating himself against the sand and now has tattered fins.

I threw in some API quick start and stress coat as it was my only current hope before returning to work.

Good news, the clownfish was still alive when I got home from work this morning and again when I left for work today.
I took a water sample to my LFS and they said everything looked great??

1.025 salinity
0 nitrites, nitrates and ammonia

I purchased just a couple more snails to give it another shot since I got some credit for the deceased.

I did notice that my heater was not keeping up. Registered 70° So I threw in another heater and it got up to 78° before adding the new crew. Thought maybe the cold water was causing it?

Again, acclimation went fine. They were moving around in the bowl but when they went in the tank they just seemed to not move and go dormant.

Also found a dead hermit before I left for work today. The other two hermits appeared to still be alive, however, not active.

The guy I got the tank from used tap water, which I plan on doing water changes and only use RO/DI.

Could it be the tap water causing this??

I should have a shipment in tomorrow- my test kit and more power heads for water changes.

I just don't know what would be causing both the snails and hermits to go dormant/die?

 

[Diesel]

What's the history on the tank?
You said you purchased while it was running for a while.
Did it had any livestock in there before?
Only thing I can come up with that you need a second opinion on your test or test for copper as the tank could be used for a hospital tank and copper and inverts don't play nice.

 

[HowardJ02]

It was running for a while, not too sure exactly how long, though. The only livestock in it was just the single clown.

My test kit should be here tomorrow, but I didn't order a copper test.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Sniff the tank. Seriously. Do you smell anything besides water?
And you should go get some new live sand for sure.
There's so much nasty stuff we can't test for it's best to be safe.
Are you running carbon or gfo? You should probably get some.
If you have to order the sand and can't get it locally you might consider just running with live rock only and go bare bottom.

 

[HowardJ02]

I didn't smell anything abnormal.
I didn't think about putting in new live sand. I was afraid it would start the cycle process over?
How would I go about replacing the sand in there now with new sand?
Basically tear the tank down again?
It won't start the cycle process over again?
I just don't want to lose the clown.

Also, I run carbon in the hob aquaclear filter. But that's about it.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I didn't smell anything abnormal.
I didn't think about putting in new live sand. I was afraid it would start the cycle process over?
How would I go about replacing the sand in there now with new sand?
Basically tear the tank down again?
It won't start the cycle process over again?
I just don't want to lose the clown.

No the new sand is already cycling. And yes you'd have to take the tank apart and scoop it out.
If you have live rock in thank you shouldn't have any probs as it already the biofilter. I'd backnit up with the bottled bacteria too just because.

I would get the homer buckets and drain the tank down get the fish in a bucket with the Rock and tank water and some bacteria
Heater if it's cold there. Drain water all the way down to the sand and then scoop it out rims the tank. Add sand tank water rock etc.
Figure on a 40 or fifty percent water change. I hate to do that much at once too.

Was the rock out of the water when you brought it home? That can result in dieoff

How did you get it all home.

Also what's the filtration like. Aquaclear or hob?

 

[HowardJ02]

The rock was out of the water for probably about an hour, though still wet, not totally submerged..
I distributed the water evenly between two totes, left the sand in the 29G, put the live rock in another tote and the fish in a bag.
When I got home, I put the rock in the 20G, added sand, then water. Adding the clown shortly after things started clearing up.

I have an AquaClear 50 running on it now.

Now you have me thinking die-off from the rock. And I need new sand.
What do I do about die-off?

Bottled bacteria- any recommendations?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

No you probably don't have a lot of die off in the rock. That would be a concern.

I'd bet it's stirring the yucky sand. Maybe die off in that.

I use seachem prime and stability. But dr t bio spira mb7 should all be good.
Plus live sand comes with bacteria on it.
Also try to find an ammonia test kit or ammonia badge.

It is possible it's because they used copper in the tank but the fish should not have been so heavily affected.

Did you check salinity on the new water? That's important.
I also like to make sure new water is well mixed and even shake the heck out of it to get air into it. It easier on the fish.

I put activated carbon in the hob just to keep gunk out.

I'm sorry I'm not 100% positive on the cause. But that's all I can really guess. People are really odd about sand and some will never touch or clean it so all the gunk builds up there. So it seems like it's the obvious problem.

Copper btw binds up on rock and sand. So once you get the chance have a fish store test the water for for copper or you might want to get a kit.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Welcome to REEF2REEF btw. Sorry it's under such awful circumstance.

Good luck. I hope all goes well. Please keep us updated.

Oh and I reread. The stress coat and quick start is also a bacteria to keep any ammonia down.

 

[HowardJ02]

I didn't add new water, I just reused the existing water I drained when I tore down the 29.

So tomorrow, I will work on tearing the tank down. Replacing the old sand with new sand. And doing a 40% water change.

I'll have them test again. I don't think they tested for copper.

I'll hopefully buy a copper test today as well and my saltwater test kit should be on my doorstep sometime today!

I appreciate the help, man!!

My poor clownfish. Hope the stress doesn't make him croak!

 

[HowardJ02]

Ok so a couple more questions.
Will replacing the sand I have now with a 20lb bag of new live sand start the cycle process over?

Should I rinse the sand first? But then it won't be "live" anymore, correct?

If I'm going to rinse it, I have unused, dried out "live" sand from years ago that I could just rinse and use?

 

[HowardJ02]

After a little research I found this helpful thread: http://reef2reef.com/threads/the-of...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445
For future reference in case this helps anyone else.

I have some old, dried out not-so-live sand I am going to rinse really well in tap water. Then replace the old sand bed with this.

My plan is to drain the water from the tank into my two totes, move the rock and fish in one of the totes. Remove the old sand and discard. Replace the rocks and add the newly rinsed sand. Start filling it back up with the water I drained and I only have about 4 gallons of RO/DI water left so a 25% water change.

Adding the API quick start will be sufficient "bottled bacteria" and safe to reintroduce the clown, correct?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

No don't use the old sand. It's prob kinda yucky.
The new sand is already cycling so is all good.
I don't rinse my sand. I do use the bio magnet stuff if it comes with it

Have the lfs check salinity

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Brandon and I are buds. I know the thread well.
With the current prob I'd spend the 20 on live sand. You kinda need the bacteria.
The old sand is not cycled. That's just y opinion. And yes that's a good plan assuming the salinity is good.
Your choice of course.

 

[HowardJ02]

Ok- I will go buy a 20lb bag of new live sand today. I will see if my LFS has bio magnet as well as maybe a more reputable source of bottle bacteria.

Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to put the clown in a small QT for a while?

I have a 5G tank not being used at the moment, I could transfer current tank water over to it and throw on the AQ50. At least until the 20G is all clear after adding the new sand?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Not a bad plan at all. Drop a rock in there and keep the cycle going.
That's usually the prob with a QT or hospital. Ammonia build up. And stress from the move too.
The Aq should have good bacteria built up to at this point.

 

[HowardJ02]

Awesome! On my way to get new sand now.

Thanks for all of your help, bud!

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

No sweat. Good luck.

 

[Bob Escher]

I wonder if there is enough " algae" detritus and things like that

 

[HowardJ02]

Got the tank all put back together..
Nitrates are through the roof in my little "QT" 5 gallon..

The 20G is still cloudy from the new sand but it has a better level of nitrates.. but still about 60ppm I would guess.

The 5 gallon had to be at the 160 level.. it was a darker orange/red.

Should I put the clown and inverts into the 20 even though it's still cloudy??

I did a water change with roughly 8 gallons of fresh RO/DI that I mixed up when I put the 20 back together.

Do you think the nitrates are high because of the tap water still left in the system??