Snowflake eel is in rough shape

[Jay Hemdal]

Also, thanks for the eel regards. He was my favorite animal in my tank, even though he was an butt and knocked things over on accident from time to time. I'm heading to the store to buy another one.

Another side comment, I'm not dosing anything into the tank, is this something I should look into? I have a raspberry-pi monitoring Ph, temp, etc. and am looking into peristaltic pumps to handle dosing, but am currently not doing any of it. End goal for the tank is a reef/fish tank.

Just a side note here. I would wait at least 14 days after losing a fish to unknown reasons before adding another, especially the same species. 30 days would be better.

I saw a lot of discussion about water quality - but aren't your other fish unaffected? Almost all finned fishes are going to be just as or even more sensitive to water quality issues that a snowflake would be.

Jay

 

[GARRIGA]

75 gallons? Everything I've read says 30-40 gallons, but I've had mine in my 60 gallon with tons of caves in the live rock. Definitely not building a 75 gallon tank to keep him in by himself.

Kept mine a 29g. Dude hid until food came out or at night trying to escape. Not saying a 75g wouldn't be better but at that point might as well add some friends.

 

[lion king]

Oh yeah in regard to the frozen shrimp, unless it was a large hard frozen piece with sharp edges it would likely do no damage. If this did somehow damage him internally, this would also take a while to take a toll, and there would be other indicators like just going of feeding for while.

 

[MnFish1]

This discussion is exactly what is great about R2r, this hobby is not absolute, and many times you discover something you never considered. And sometimes there is no definitive answer.

If - I was a person saying 'I need help with problem A' - and I got 3 answers that are basically in direct absolute contradiction of each other, I would not consider that helpful. On the other hand if a person says 'I've owned a business or have done direct research on this topic - thats another thing'. Again - this is my opinion. I wasn't calling any people out - it was a general comment. If, instead, this thread was a poll 'what kills eels' - thats different IMHO

 

[GARRIGA]

If - I was a person saying 'I need help with problem A' - and I got 3 answers that are basically in direct absolute contradiction of each other, I would not consider that helpful. On the other hand if a person says 'I've owned a business or have done direct research on this topic - thats another thing'. Again - this is my opinion. I wasn't calling any people out - it was a general comment. If, instead, this thread was a poll 'what kills eels' - thats different IMHO

Been to/sold to some LFS that I wouldn't buy from or take advise from. Why self research and experience the only solution because even experts get it wrong and why science constantly evolving as new details are resolved. Heck, when I startedf, zero nitrates was the goal.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Oh yeah in regard to the frozen shrimp, unless it was a large hard frozen piece with sharp edges it would likely do no damage. If this did somehow damage him internally, this would also take a while to take a toll, and there would be other indicators like just going of feeding for while.

Shrimp is high in thiaminase, so feeding as a sole diet, long term, will result in vitamin B1 deficiency. Here is an excerpt from my book that lists thiaminase containing seafoods:

Thiaminase
Thiaminase is an enzyme that metabolizes or breaks down thiamine (vitamin B1). In high enough concentrations in food, thiaminase will create thiamin deficient diets in fish. This is a common, yet serious problem with predatory fish that are fed feeder goldfish, as goldfish are very high in thiaminase. Lionfish, piranha and oscars cichlids were commonly fed all-goldfish diets by home aquarists. Health issues in their fish were then very common; fatty liver disease in lionfish, pica in piranha (where they eat each other to try to get more thiamin) and HLLE in oscars. Fresh seafoods known to be high in thiaminase can be supplemented with thiamin. Conversely, aquarists can avoid feeding fresh seafoods known to be high in thiaminase. The following is a partial list of seafoods that contain thiaminase:

Species high in thiaminase
Anchovy (Engraulis sp.)
Atlantic herring (Clupea harengus)
Capelin (Mallotus villosus)
Carp (Cyprinus carpio)
Clams (family Veneridae)
Goldfish (Carassius auratus)
Lobster (Homarus americanus)
Menhaden (Brevoortia spp.)
Minnows (Cyprinids)
Mussels (Mytilus spp.)
Rainbow smelt (Osmerus mordax)
Sardine (Harengula spp.)
Scallops (Pecten spp.)
Shrimp and prawns (various species)
Skipjack tuna (Katsuwonus pelamis)
White bass (Morone chrysops)
Yellowfin tuna (Neothunnus macropterus)

Species lower in thiaminase
Atlantic cod (Gadus morhua)
Atlantic hake (Merluccius bilinearis)
Atlantic halibut (Hippoglossus hippoglossus)
Atlantic mackerel (Scomber scombrus)
Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar)
Brown trout (Salmo trutta)
Catfish (Ictalurus and related spp)
Cisco (Coregonus spp.)
Coho salmon (Oncorhynchus kisutch)
Flounder / sole (Pleuronectes and related spp.)
Haddock (Melanogrammus aeglefinus)
Hake (Urophycis spp)
Lake trout (Salvelinus namaycush)
Mullet (Mugilidae spp)
Poecilids (Guppies, platies, mollies)
Pollock/Pollack (Pollachius spp.)
Rainbow trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss)
Tilapia (Oreochromis spp)
Worms (Lumbricus spp)

Jay

 

[lion king]

Shrimp is high in thiaminase, so feeding as a sole diet, long term, will result in vitamin B1 deficiency. Here is an excerpt from my book that lists thiaminase containing seafoods:

Thiaminase
Thiaminase is an enzyme that metabolizes or breaks down thiamine (vitamin B1). In high enough concentrations in food, thiaminase will create thiamin deficient diets in fish. This is a common, yet serious problem with predatory fish that are fed feeder goldfish, as goldfish are very high in thiaminase. Lionfish, piranha and oscars cichlids were commonly fed all-goldfish diets by home aquarists. Health issues in their fish were then very common; fatty liver disease in lionfish, pica in piranha (where they eat each other to try to get more thiamin) and HLLE in oscars. Fresh seafoods known to be high in thiaminase can be supplemented with thiamin. Conversely, aquarists can avoid feeding fresh seafoods known to be high in thiaminase. The following is a partial list of seafoods that contain thiaminase:

Species high in thiaminase
Anchovy (Engraulis sp.)
Atlantic herring (Clupea harengus)
Capelin (Mallotus villosus)
Carp (Cyprinus carpio)
Clams (family Veneridae)
Goldfish (Carassius auratus)
Lobster (Homarus americanus)
Menhaden (Brevoortia spp.)
Minnows (Cyprinids)
Mussels (Mytilus spp.)
Rainbow smelt (Osmerus mordax)
Sardine (Harengula spp.)
Scallops (Pecten spp.)
Shrimp and prawns (various species)
Skipjack tuna (Katsuwonus pelamis)
White bass (Morone chrysops)
Yellowfin tuna (Neothunnus macropterus)

Species lower in thiaminase
Atlantic cod (Gadus morhua)
Atlantic hake (Merluccius bilinearis)
Atlantic halibut (Hippoglossus hippoglossus)
Atlantic mackerel (Scomber scombrus)
Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar)
Brown trout (Salmo trutta)
Catfish (Ictalurus and related spp)
Cisco (Coregonus spp.)
Coho salmon (Oncorhynchus kisutch)
Flounder / sole (Pleuronectes and related spp.)
Haddock (Melanogrammus aeglefinus)
Hake (Urophycis spp)
Lake trout (Salvelinus namaycush)
Mullet (Mugilidae spp)
Poecilids (Guppies, platies, mollies)
Pollock/Pollack (Pollachius spp.)
Rainbow trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss)
Tilapia (Oreochromis spp)
Worms (Lumbricus spp)

Jay

We talked about the diet early on and feeding only frozen shrimp was a bad idea, this post was in reference to him thinking that an unthawed piece of shrimp could have killed him.

 

[Pazernaker]

Just a side note here. I would wait at least 14 days after losing a fish to unknown reasons before adding another, especially the same species. 30 days would be better.

I saw a lot of discussion about water quality - but aren't your other fish unaffected? Almost all finned fishes are going to be just as or even more sensitive to water quality issues that a snowflake would be.

Jay

I was going to go buy another at some point and replace him, but I think I'm just going to stay away from the eel for a bit. It's unfortunate because he was my favorite and I LOVED hand feeding him. That's what I thought was really strange also, nothing else in the tank is affected, and I've heard of eels living in peoples sumps for months that get along just fine. I think I'm going to ween off the API test kits, I'm at the stage in the hobby where I need to get off beginner items and get more professional ones anyways.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

We talked about the diet early on and feeding only frozen shrimp was a bad idea, this post was in reference to him thinking that an unthawed piece of shrimp could have killed him.

Yes - I mostly posted that so that you would have the list.....

Jay

 

[Pazernaker]

Shrimp is high in thiaminase, so feeding as a sole diet, long term, will result in vitamin B1 deficiency. Here is an excerpt from my book that lists thiaminase containing seafoods:

Thiaminase
Thiaminase is an enzyme that metabolizes or breaks down thiamine (vitamin B1). In high enough concentrations in food, thiaminase will create thiamin deficient diets in fish. This is a common, yet serious problem with predatory fish that are fed feeder goldfish, as goldfish are very high in thiaminase. Lionfish, piranha and oscars cichlids were commonly fed all-goldfish diets by home aquarists. Health issues in their fish were then very common; fatty liver disease in lionfish, pica in piranha (where they eat each other to try to get more thiamin) and HLLE in oscars. Fresh seafoods known to be high in thiaminase can be supplemented with thiamin. Conversely, aquarists can avoid feeding fresh seafoods known to be high in thiaminase. The following is a partial list of seafoods that contain thiaminase:

Species high in thiaminase
Anchovy (Engraulis sp.)
Atlantic herring (Clupea harengus)
Capelin (Mallotus villosus)
Carp (Cyprinus carpio)
Clams (family Veneridae)
Goldfish (Carassius auratus)
Lobster (Homarus americanus)
Menhaden (Brevoortia spp.)
Minnows (Cyprinids)
Mussels (Mytilus spp.)
Rainbow smelt (Osmerus mordax)
Sardine (Harengula spp.)
Scallops (Pecten spp.)
Shrimp and prawns (various species)
Skipjack tuna (Katsuwonus pelamis)
White bass (Morone chrysops)
Yellowfin tuna (Neothunnus macropterus)

Species lower in thiaminase
Atlantic cod (Gadus morhua)
Atlantic hake (Merluccius bilinearis)
Atlantic halibut (Hippoglossus hippoglossus)
Atlantic mackerel (Scomber scombrus)
Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar)
Brown trout (Salmo trutta)
Catfish (Ictalurus and related spp)
Cisco (Coregonus spp.)
Coho salmon (Oncorhynchus kisutch)
Flounder / sole (Pleuronectes and related spp.)
Haddock (Melanogrammus aeglefinus)
Hake (Urophycis spp)
Lake trout (Salvelinus namaycush)
Mullet (Mugilidae spp)
Poecilids (Guppies, platies, mollies)
Pollock/Pollack (Pollachius spp.)
Rainbow trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss)
Tilapia (Oreochromis spp)
Worms (Lumbricus spp)

Jay

Hey Jay,

I recognize that shrimp only was a poor choice on my side (it's what I was told by a LFS as an acceptable diet, adding to the string of things I've been told to do that are apparently wrong). The comment your addressing, though, was because I asked about a piece of shrimp having a frozen core and if a thermal shock to his system would cause his death a few days later. I went on a trip for a few days and my wife handled the feeding while I was gone, so I threw it out as a possibility of if she didn't thaw a piece all the way.

-Ryan

 

[Pazernaker]

Yes - I mostly posted that so that you would have the list.....

Jay

Disregard my last statement, I just saw this response and can't figure out how to delete my recent post...

 

[Pazernaker]

Many report having inconsistencies with API test kits. Because no other fish were effected I'm a bit curiously of the high ammonia reading, if this was something to effect the eel so severely, it would at least show signs in some of the other fish. Eels are special creatures and some special considerations must be taken, if you care to get another eel, visit some of my threads in the predator forum, and read the one post I made here about the points that contribute to premature eel death. I am sorry for your loss, you seem to be a hobbyist that genuinely care about the welfare of your fish.

Thanks, I was really heart broken to watch him suffer like that, especially since I knew at the end of the day, it was probably something I did wrong. I'll definitely be checking out your posts, but I think I'm going to lay off the eel for a little while until I figure the rest of this out and get more general experience (3ish months into this hobby).

 

[Bucs20fan]

Shrimp is high in thiaminase, so feeding as a sole diet, long term, will result in vitamin B1 deficiency. Here is an excerpt from my book that lists thiaminase containing seafoods:

Thiaminase
Thiaminase is an enzyme that metabolizes or breaks down thiamine (vitamin B1). In high enough concentrations in food, thiaminase will create thiamin deficient diets in fish. This is a common, yet serious problem with predatory fish that are fed feeder goldfish, as goldfish are very high in thiaminase. Lionfish, piranha and oscars cichlids were commonly fed all-goldfish diets by home aquarists. Health issues in their fish were then very common; fatty liver disease in lionfish, pica in piranha (where they eat each other to try to get more thiamin) and HLLE in oscars. Fresh seafoods known to be high in thiaminase can be supplemented with thiamin. Conversely, aquarists can avoid feeding fresh seafoods known to be high in thiaminase. The following is a partial list of seafoods that contain thiaminase:

Species high in thiaminase
Anchovy (Engraulis sp.)
Atlantic herring (Clupea harengus)
Capelin (Mallotus villosus)
Carp (Cyprinus carpio)
Clams (family Veneridae)
Goldfish (Carassius auratus)
Lobster (Homarus americanus)
Menhaden (Brevoortia spp.)
Minnows (Cyprinids)
Mussels (Mytilus spp.)
Rainbow smelt (Osmerus mordax)
Sardine (Harengula spp.)
Scallops (Pecten spp.)
Shrimp and prawns (various species)
Skipjack tuna (Katsuwonus pelamis)
White bass (Morone chrysops)
Yellowfin tuna (Neothunnus macropterus)

Species lower in thiaminase
Atlantic cod (Gadus morhua)
Atlantic hake (Merluccius bilinearis)
Atlantic halibut (Hippoglossus hippoglossus)
Atlantic mackerel (Scomber scombrus)
Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar)
Brown trout (Salmo trutta)
Catfish (Ictalurus and related spp)
Cisco (Coregonus spp.)
Coho salmon (Oncorhynchus kisutch)
Flounder / sole (Pleuronectes and related spp.)
Haddock (Melanogrammus aeglefinus)
Hake (Urophycis spp)
Lake trout (Salvelinus namaycush)
Mullet (Mugilidae spp)
Poecilids (Guppies, platies, mollies)
Pollock/Pollack (Pollachius spp.)
Rainbow trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss)
Tilapia (Oreochromis spp)
Worms (Lumbricus spp)

Jay

@Jay Hemdal I have a question, since snowflakes and zebras natural diet almost entirely consists of crustaceans and rarely fish, how do they not become deficient in B1 in their natural habitat? Im not asking to contradictory, I was genuinely intrigued by this list and looking at all the species on it.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

I tend to clean mine about once a month, though honestly, I'm not sure I'm even doing the cleaning correct. The process for me is as follows:

1) Shut the pump off, lock the plumbing and remove the hoses. Take the canister over to my deep kitchen sink to contain the mess.
2) Take the lid off and remove each section. My stack goes like this (and I'm running off memory): Bottom shelf is large pore foam, second shelf is activated charcoal bags, third shelf is those black carbon ball things, fourth shelf is the ceramic media with a floss filter on top of it.
3) This is the step a lot of people are going to jump right on. I use hot tap water on the large pore filter with a sprayer to get all the gunk out of it. My tap water is well water with a softener built in and in in line filter/bubbler for Radon (I live in NH, we have a lot of radon because of the granite rock). All heavy metals are also treated out of the system. I've tested it for metals and there's none registered, nor is there any fluoride, chlorine, or other things you get with town water. It's not RODI water, but I figured for spraying out a filter pad, it should be OK? Maybe?
4) Using the water in the canister from the tank, I dunk the ceramic media and the carbon ball things into the water to break loose all the junk on the outside of it (I don't even know what these are for, but I replaced them when I got the tank a few months ago, as well as half the ceramic media. I was yelled at for changing the ceramic media on this forum saying it's a marketing ploy and you should never have to change it).
5) I use my hand to break lose all the gunk on the inside of the canister filter lose and throw the water out.
6) Replace the shelves in the order they came out and change the floss filter out on the top shelf. Also, replace the activated charcoal bag, which I'm not using my own activated charcoal and a mesh bag that fits the entire shelf instead of using three small bags chucked in the shelf, which may or may not filter the water as it passed around/through them.
7) Throw it back under the tank, hook the hoses up, prime it, plug it in, and replace the water.

Am I doing this right? What, if anything, should I change out of this system to optimize it?

Be careful when cleaning it, a deep clean will wipe out your biological filtration. Ask me how I know. How much live rock do you have? The fact that your system has ammonia is a huge problem. Any normal biological filter can easily pick up extra feeding and still register 0. You have a problem, no way around it. You really need to boost your biological filter.

Let's talk test kits for a second, people love to say api can give false results. I've got news for you, they will all give you bad results. Api seems to do better than others in my experience. I have every test kit you could imagine and I have done heavy testing because of how bad they are. I am currently getting free new reagents from hanna phosphate nitrate and copper because they are all bad!! I have ordered 2 nyos nitrate and 1 gave 0 ppm even in 40 plus ppm water. The other is crap. These are companies people on here and in the community tout as the best. I have had a bad api nitrate but it sat for a year. In probably 5 bottles of ammonia api I have never seen a bad test. Don't always believe what you hear on here, I have spend insane amounts of money on test kits and they are all garbage. Get a sechem ammonia alert badge, lasts a whole year and does a good job. Remember it is testing for free ammonia which is much different from api.

 

[GARRIGA]

Be careful when cleaning it, a deep clean will wipe out your biological filtration. Ask me how I know. How much live rock do you have? The fact that your system has ammonia is a huge problem. Any normal biological filter can easily pick up extra feeding and still register 0. You have a problem, no way around it. You really need to boost your biological filter.

Let's talk test kits for a second, people love to say api can give false results. I've got news for you, they will all give you bad results. Api seems to do better than others in my experience. I have every test kit you could imagine and I have done heavy testing because of how bad they are. I am currently getting free new reagents from hanna phosphate nitrate and copper because they are all bad!! I have ordered 2 nyos nitrate and 1 gave 0 ppm even in 40 plus ppm water. The other is crap. These are companies people on here and in the community tout as the best. I have had a bad api nitrate but it sat for a year. In probably 5 bottles of ammonia api I have never seen a bad test. Don't always believe what you hear on here, I have spend insane amounts of money on test kits and they are all garbage. Get a sechem ammonia alert badge, lasts a whole year and does a good job. Remember it is testing for free ammonia which is much different from api.

Best way to confirm one has good regents via a reference sample. Hack is an option but I prefer making mine own. Did it with ammonium chloride to test API ammonia strip and it was spot on. Plan on doing the same with NeoNitro and NeoPhos.

Been using API since the 80s. Not precise but accurate enough. Internet tends to parrot that read or heard without actual experience. When I hear something that contradicts my experience, I just ignore it.

Doesn’t help that out hobby promotes having obscene tolerance as a need to succeed versus grasping that trends with hobby grade test kits best we can hope for and sometimes our eyes of what’s transpiring in our tanks the best measure of what matters most. No sense fixing what a possibly faulty test indicates when no sign of issue exists. Manufacturers of expensive test kits however do benefit the most.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey Jay,

I recognize that shrimp only was a poor choice on my side (it's what I was told by a LFS as an acceptable diet, adding to the string of things I've been told to do that are apparently wrong). The comment your addressing, though, was because I asked about a piece of shrimp having a frozen core and if a thermal shock to his system would cause his death a few days later. I went on a trip for a few days and my wife handled the feeding while I was gone, so I threw it out as a possibility of if she didn't thaw a piece all the way.

-Ryan

Thermal shock wouldn't be an issue - if the shrimp was too frozen, the eel would have struggled to swallow it, and it would have melted in the meantime. If it was thawed on the outside, with a frozen core, it wouldn't be an issue.

Public aquariums feed out frozen seafoods all of the time, and start with mostly frozen items in order to preserve freshness as they go tank to tank....I've never had an issue with that.

jay

 

[MnFish1]

Hey guys! Update time, sorry, it's been a really frantic 12 hours. First off, this has been one of my favorite discussions to follow on here, I just wish it wasn't because my eel was dying. Thank you everyone for all the help, but things are getting really weird again.

First and foremost, I'm using the standard API saltwater test kit with calcium and phosphate testing added. All tests are within 1 year of shelf life and I test the water about twice a week now running a log. Ammonia is usually lower than that .35, but my wife was feeding dry pellets and probably overfed while I was on a trip for 4-5 days. I figured the higher ammonia was her overfeeding my fish. She fed the eel on the schedule I gave her with tiny chunks of frozen shrimp. For those saying malnutrition, the shrimp isn't frozen brine, it's large grocery shrimps I keep a bag of, cut pieces off of, thaw out, then feed to him. One question I have is if she didn't thaw a shrimp chunk out completely and he ate one with a frozen core, could that lead to his death?

Regarding the fate of the eel, by the time I got home, he was dead. I felt around his throat to see if something was lodged in there, but couldn't find anything.

I'm questioning everything now, as I did a 21 gallon water change (20 gallons, then an extra gallon for what was thrown out of the protein skimmer when I cleaned it) and the Nitrate level went from turning bright red in less than a minute to almost 0 the day after I changed some water. No other fish in the tank are affected by whatever affected the eel and as a reminder to something I said earlier, he only started showing signs of not eating a day or two ago. His stomach was not impacted and I had a friend take a look at him to let me know what he thought the condition of the eel was and was told he was the proper weight/thickness for his age/length, so it wasn't underfeeding.

So now, I'm questioning my test kit, the use of chemiclean, and everything else in my tank...

I bought some activated charcoal (I believe it was seaclear brand) that was recommended by a LFS and a large mesh bag. Since I've been using the Magniflow 360 canister filter cartridge and the marine land brand charcoal pouches, I've never liked that they don't cover the entire shelf they sit on, so hopefully this gets better filtration? Other than that, I'm at a loss for what I should do other than just watch the tank and see what it does.

This was the point I was trying to make - kind of. (Someone asked why no one is paying attention to the ammonia) - In order for your nitrate to be THAT high (assuming its real) in a weeks time - you must have had a huge 'ammonia load' - whether your filter could have taken care of that or not - I dont know - But - It could be part of the problem. I am not sure how you would get a 0.35 ammonia level with an API test (assuming thats what you're reading) - but unless your pH is high (and if you said it I dont recall) - your free ammonia is not likely (now) in the toxic range. I'm also going to be the heretic here again lol - API tests are IMHO - fine - BUT - you need to follow the instructions absolutely to the letter if it says 2 minutes - do whatever for 2 minutes. BTW - It's obviously stressful - to have such a beautiful fish so sick. My only other recommendation - is check and double check your results as I believe @vetteguy53081 mentioned - to be sure 1) your ammonia is not higher than you think - and 2) to be sure you're nitrate is really that high. Please feel free to keep adding information - and questions !!!!!

 

[lion king]

@Jay Hemdal I have a question, since snowflakes and zebras natural diet almost entirely consists of crustaceans and rarely fish, how do they not become deficient in B1 in their natural habitat? Im not asking to contradictory, I was genuinely intrigued by this list and looking at all the species on it.

Live foods and even fresh seafood will have more vitamin B1 to address the thiaminese issue. The problem is with frozen shrimp if not frozen or stored propzrly and used within the recommended time, nutritional values decline. Many hobbyist will just feed their fish old expired freezer burnt shrimp and think it is good. So buy fresh when possible and freeze in small batches to be used in a timely manner. And include other items like salmon and mussels, which although containing thiaminese contains a huge amount of vitamin B1

 

[MnFish1]

Best way to confirm one has good regents via a reference sample. Hack is an option but I prefer making mine own. Did it with ammonium chloride to test API ammonia strip and it was spot on. Plan on doing the same with NeoNitro and NeoPhos.

Been using API since the 80s. Not precise but accurate enough. Internet tends to parrot that read or heard without actual experience. When I hear something that contradicts my experience, I just ignore it.

Doesn’t help that out hobby promotes having obscene tolerance as a need to succeed versus grasping that trends with hobby grade test kits best we can hope for and sometimes our eyes of what’s transpiring in our tanks the best measure of what matters most. No sense fixing what a possibly faulty test indicates when no sign of issue exists. Manufacturers of expensive test kits however do benefit the most.

Assume (for the OP's sake) - you mean Hach - not Hack - or there is another option I'm not aware of

 

[MnFish1]

gasping for air because Carbon dosing can also lower the amount of oxygen in your tank. This will in turn lower your PH and your alkalinity.

Assuming what you're saying is that a 'carbon dosing (increasing bacteria) CAN lower pH and alkalinity? Lower oxygen in the tank - should not do anything to pH and alkalinity - but I think I'm just mis-reading what you were trying to say