So many "methods" for advanced reef keeping..

[Davy Jones]

Hello, so this is a question ive been contemplating for some time. And i understand there will be some bias for all of these methods and such but here we go.

With all the different things out there, Aquaforest, Balling method, Zeovit, Red sea Reef care program, 2 part, Triton, Tropic marin balling, Fauna marin balling, etc... How do you know which will be best for you and your tank?

I understand the very watered down basics of "use our products, keep everything stable and your reef will look amazing!" But really dont they all do the same thing? with the exception of the testing done by triton and the Super ULNS that zeovit runs?

I guess what im saying is, I want to do more for my tank than waterchanges and manual dosing of cal and alk to keep things alive. I want to make things Thrive (just like everyone else) but not sure which product to try. Or even if any of them are worth the extra price tag.

Opinions/experiences/comments?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

It's as easy as choosing a spouse really.

 

[Davy Jones]

Well that doesnt help me come to a conclusion lol But i suppose it makes sense.. If there was a best everyone would do it i suppose.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

A good book to read to help you decide is the
"Tao of Jeet Kune Do" By Bruce Lee

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

IMO, one way to help decide would be to look to lots of different good quality tanks, such as Tanks of the Month, but not only those, look to see what methods they use, and see if you find something you would like to emulate.

Most of these methods can be quite successful, but some different types of husbandry practices do have different looks that appeal to different folks.

 

[beaslbob]

I just use the beaslbob method.

 

[beaslbob]

^which has yet to be defined

 

[Davy Jones]

Ive been using the "struggle to keep the corals alive and healthy" method since ive been in reefing lol

On a side note, what is the difference between a balling method and a 2 part method?
My understanding is most 2 part additives contain many of the trace elements packed into the parts, and you obviously dose 2 parts. (with the exception of magnesium in the case of brs and maybe others.)

But with a balling method, do you not do the same thing? Dose Calcium and Alk, and then dose trace elements?

What makes one more effective than the other?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I just use the beaslbob method.

^which has yet to be defined

Oh so you read bruce lee....

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ive been using the "struggle to keep the corals alive and healthy" method since ive been in reefing lol

On a side note, what is the difference between a balling method and a 2 part method?
My understanding is most 2 part additives contain many of the trace elements packed into the parts, and you obviously dose 2 parts. (with the exception of magnesium in the case of brs and maybe others.)

But with a balling method, do you not do the same thing? Dose Calcium and Alk, and then dose trace elements?

What makes one more effective than the other?

There is no functional difference between a perfect two part (which has other elements already in the 2 or 3 parts) and perfect Balling (with the other elements added via their salt free salt mix).

The unknown is how well any of these approach perfection.

I compare methods here:

The Many Methods for Supplementing Calcium and Alkalinity - REEFEDITION
http://www.reefedition.com/the-many-methods-for-supplementing-calcium-and-alkalinity/

and here's a cut and paste from another thread:

Balling adds sodium carbonate/bicarbonate and calcium chloride. Then to deal with the residual sodium and chloride, it adds a sodium chloride free salt mix (that is, salt mix with everything except sodium and chloride) to exactly balance out the sodium and chloride, leaving the tank water with a residue of ions that looks like seawater. So the only drawback over time is that the salinity rises.

A two part does (or at least can do) this exact thing, except it puts all of the ingredients from the sodium chloride free salt mix) into one of the two or three parts used in the supplement system. Again, the salinity rises over time, same as with Balling.

FWIW, there was a short discussion by me and Lou Ekus of Tropic Marin/Balling where he tried to defend the "specialness" of Balling over a two part, but he never responded to my last post asking for a clarification of why he thought that:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/balling-compared-to-triton.227707/

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Once you've studied the defined techniques somewhat thoroughly, youll find they have pros and cons. Lifestyle, natural ability and yea income are a big deciding factor in sticking with one of those. And youll find one, perhaps modified, that really works for you. And it will evolve too.

 

[Davy Jones]

There is no functional difference between a perfect two part (which has other elements already in the 2 or 3 parts) and perfect Balling (with the other elements added via their salt free salt mix).

The unknown is how well any of these approach perfection.

I compare methods here:

The Many Methods for Supplementing Calcium and Alkalinity - REEFEDITION
http://www.reefedition.com/the-many-methods-for-supplementing-calcium-and-alkalinity/

and here's a cut and paste from another thread:

Balling adds sodium carbonate/bicarbonate and calcium chloride. Then to deal with the residual sodium and chloride, it adds a sodium chloride free salt mix (that is, salt mix with everything except sodium and chloride) to exactly balance out the sodium and chloride, leaving the tank water with a residue of ions that looks like seawater. So the only drawback over time is that the salinity rises.

A two part does (or at least can do) this exact thing, except it puts all of the ingredients from the sodium chloride free salt mix) into one of the two or three parts used in the supplement system. Again, the salinity rises over time, same as with Balling.

FWIW, there was a short discussion by me and Lou Ekus of Tropic Marin/Balling where he tried to defend the "specialness" of Balling over a two part, but he never responded to my last post asking for a clarification of why he thought that:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/balling-compared-to-triton.227707/

Thank you for the Read! Very informative! I am likely going to go with a complete 2 part, or with a balling method that works similar to a 2 part. I plan on picking up a dosing pump (likely an apex dos) so i only want to have to dose 2 things consistantly (i can do MG or a 3rd solution manually every few days or once a week depending on needs of the tank)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You're welcome.

Happy Reefing.

 

[mcarroll]

what is the difference between a balling method and a 2 part method?

Let Mr. Balling explain it! First time it ever made sense to me.


ESV is somewhat like that....my understanding is that most of the extra goodies come in the Mg part, but all the parts are more than simple two-part. I imagine most of the commercial two-part products try to do it like this.

The question is cost.....and that's where you get all these one-off "methods" popping up like weeds.

Randy's basic two-part can be pulled off for about $0.02 per day..maybe $.05 if you count all three parts.

When you do go all the way to "perfect" (which is never actually perfect) cost goes up by orders of magnitude.

This is why Randy's recipe just includes water changes on top of that nickel-a-day formula. (Which is an excellent formula!)

Dosing limewater + 3rd Part is another venue that's potentially very cheap....but I don't seem to find lime for sale around here with regularity.

 

[mmw64]

Ive been using the "struggle to keep the corals alive and healthy" method since ive been in reefing lol

On a side note, what is the difference between a balling method and a 2 part method?
My understanding is most 2 part additives contain many of the trace elements packed into the parts, and you obviously dose 2 parts. (with the exception of magnesium in the case of brs and maybe others.)

But with a balling method, do you not do the same thing? Dose Calcium and Alk, and then dose trace elements?

What makes one more effective than the other?

Me too, the struggling part. That's my method.

 

[Davy Jones]

I went with 2 part ESV, I figured It is the least work and since im gone so much it is the easiest for me to set up so the tank sitter has to nothing in regards to maintaining that or mixing anything.

As well as the struggle method, still very heavy into that method. I could almost write a book!

 

[Kungpaoshizi]

I was in your shoes once, but looking at all the different awesome tanks out there, there's a few fundamentals I think that need to be followed.
1. Get dosers (dosing every hour has led to a stability a human cannot recreate)
2. Do Triton tests (they're expensive but very detailed to help pinpoint problems)
3. Do not take a single source of information as the holy grail (most people who preach on forums have a lot of posts, but they rarely have tanks like TOTM's)
4. Big companies would not be big if they ripped people off and their methods did not work

Otherwise DIY methods work to a certain extent, but relying on purity of a product that isn't made for aquariums or vice versa, relying on an impurity of a product (aragonite in driveway melt) isn't very wise if you want an awesome tank.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I went with 2 part ESV, I figured It is the least work and since im gone so much it is the easiest for me to set up so the tank sitter has to nothing in regards to maintaining that or mixing anything.

As well as the struggle method, still very heavy into that method. I could almost write a book!

B-ionic by ESV is a fine choice for a two part. It was the very first brand available years ago.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Otherwise DIY methods work to a certain extent, but relying on purity of a product that isn't made for aquariums or vice versa, relying on an impurity of a product (aragonite in driveway melt) isn't very wise if you want an awesome tank.

Aragonite in driveway melt? Is that a typo?

 

[dragonfish]

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