Thx. A little hard to follow, though.@Riotjj21 because ime that's how most mix up as a base I use fritz marine pro reef salt(blue box)and it has an alk of 10 to 10.2 when mixed to 1.025 outta the box ...by the time it sits is added to system and is watered down
I do 25% to 35% wc daily so added to the system it causes the alk to raise to high 8s temporarily. But here's the trick freshwater is getting added to the sump while your draining the systems waste so your actually adding like 3% rodi to that 25 to 35% u just did during the minute or two it took u to drain out the water. The system is getting freswater which in turn will water down and dilute that fresh saltwater u just made to a alk of 8.9 or so(you have to have your own method and know your sump levels) you then test the alk again and add freshwater to dilute to the desired ratio, after your alk is at the desired level your dosing regimen will keep the water stable once you figure out your daily nutrient uptake(cal mag alk,trace minerals) and nutrient output(no3 po4)
The solution is dilution!as well as replace chealated trace minerals
Waterchange with the high alk base water at a given ratio depending on watervolume and desired numbers then top off with freshwater if necessay,knowing how or if u need to dilute is key imho
And some people like to push things to the max this isnt good unless you have the output(no3 po4 alot of fish poop) to support it otherwise your tips will burn certain pieces will stn rtn green tricolor will become just green any coral with blue will become totally blue purples purple some dull out others die ,but even then what's the point chasing those numbers or even attempting this sure you'll get growth but you'll lose color or coral,which is worse?... when this happens some people will panic(everyone is guilty of this in the past ) which is a no no and adjust the water chemistry and kill what they have left, you shouldnt change your whole system around for one coral if the rest are doing fine and one is being fickle... things happen.
But on the subject of the alk I'm not saying you cant run the alk that high. but most people that are using that salt are probably not using it as is directly but diluting before or during wc or running high nutrient systems to begin with so they can use it right outta the box without topping off freshwater
So you want to grow beautiful acropora huh? Take a tip, leave a tip.
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Riotjj21
Active Member
Thx. A little hard to follow, though.
East1
Community Member
I'd like to think I have a good longterm method, and I pushed it to the limit in my ~5gallon tank here, the biggest revalation was how quickly this density of corals will take up Boron, Bromine, Strontium and Iodine, as well as Phosphate. I have to dose all of those heavily, I'm talking multiple ml of solutions daily.
Now that it's got a baseline of addition, though, I'm able to maintain the tank without any water changes
Now that it's got a baseline of addition, though, I'm able to maintain the tank without any water changes
Koigula
Active Member
You really should consider doing a build thread in the future. I am assuming total system volume is much more than 5 gallons. If not larger water changes would be very practical.I'd like to think I have a good longterm method, and I pushed it to the limit in my ~5gallon tank here, the biggest revalation was how quickly this density of corals will take up Boron, Bromine, Strontium and Iodine, as well as Phosphate. I have to dose all of those heavily, I'm talking multiple ml of solutions daily.
Now that it's got a baseline of addition, though, I'm able to maintain the tank without any water changes
East1
Community Member
I have on another forum, but I can crosspost to here and start a thread
I did use large water changes while I was trying to figure out the key elements - once alk is stable and there's a good nutrient gradient (feeding, then balancing N
, I use urea and brightwell neophos) it's easier to identify individual nutrient needs, but I needed water changes to avoid them dying while I scaled the doses, in the past 2-3 months I've done perhaps 2 changes now that I have a confirmed dosing schedule, total volume is 5 gallons, the display that you see is about 3.5, sump is here. The dosing pump doses TM All For Reef, the rest of the additions are done by hand in the morning and evening
I use a lot of KZ products, but I often rotate them with other brands, I target the following elements in this order of importance - the order is roughly what you can observe in decline from polyp extension, coenosarc thickness, colour, growth and evntually death.
- Boron
- Phosphorus
- Bromine
- Iodine
- Flourine
- Iron and trace elements
- Strontium
- Potassium (rarely, my phosphate salt has a lot of potassium so often I have excess)
- Nitrogen
What is long term? How is "healthy" determined? The coral microbiome is critical to it's health and we can't test it. Researchers have found "healthy" looking corals can in fact have disturbed microbiomes leading to disease. And what is long term? If it takes a couple decades for a coral to become sexually mature keeping some for 5 or 10 years seems to me like keeping a kitten or puppy for a few months and declaring success at keeping them healthy. With colonies that have life spans measured in just a few years if we're not able to keep them healthy enough to spawn is that really "success"?
1ocean
2500 Club Member
Yep I just use Red Sea Blue bucket and have a doser dosing kalkwasser...I keep my alk at 9.0 so if it swings a few .01+ i have a safe margin....Kalk also helps keep my PH 8.0+ which dino hate higher PH.
This is extremely impressive.I have on another forum, but I can crosspost to here and start a thread
I did use large water changes while I was trying to figure out the key elements - once alk is stable and there's a good nutrient gradient (feeding, then balancing N
total volume is 5 gallons, the display that you see is about 3.5, sump is here. The dosing pump doses TM All For Reef, the rest of the additions are done by hand in the morning and evening
I use a lot of KZ products, but I often rotate them with other brands, I target the following elements in this order of importance - the order is roughly what you can observe in decline from polyp extension, coenosarc thickness, colour, growth and evntually death.
- Boron
- Phosphorus
- Bromine
- Iodine
- Flourine
- Iron and trace elements
- Strontium
- Potassium (rarely, my phosphate salt has a lot of potassium so often I have excess)
- Nitrogen
Are you dosing each element individually or are you using something like All for Reef or similar as baseline?
Would be awesome to see you start a build thread here and run down on your system. As well as put #'s to each one of those elements you listed individually.
Very nice
East1
Community Member
Thank you!
I use All for Reef as a baseline - at about 5.5ml / 24hour / 5 gallons to maintain stable kH and Calcium, then I dose the rest by coral behaviour.
I'll make a thread later today but the gist of it was that I figured out the regularity needed to dose by inversing the amount of the element present in NSW.
ie, if something is low concentration in NSW, and from the above methodology showed some kinda coral behaviour decline (reduced polyps for example with stage 1 phosphate reduction, then loss of colour as the precipitates of phosphate are broken down, and finally dry 'skin' on the coral or STN from the hetrotrophic non-axial polyp flesh) I would then dose to compensate.
Using an example of something like phosphate where the concentration is low and thus the volume is low, I'd need to dose this daily or twice-daily, but something like Strontium I can dose every few days for the same effect.
Awesome please do tag me when you start build thread
Your SPS looks like they lovin the high phosphates 0.29 ?!! WowThis is what has worked for me
whats your feeding schedule consist of ?This is what has worked for me
Frozen mysis
10mls of Red Sea ab+
4 drops of kz coral vitalizer
15 drops of oyster feast
2 drops of kz amino concentrate
Everyday
Thats what im talking about man!
Looks like your on it! I JUST finished fighting Dinoflagalletes. I will start Red Sea ab+ again today.
I usually feed frozen Mysis, Oyster Feast, and AcroPower. Do you recommend KZ Coral Vitalizer? Have you tried Acropower?
East1
Community Member
Awesome please do tag me when you start build thread
Build Thread - World's Smallest Acropora tank? 5 Gallon Nano
someone asked me to post my tank from another thread, so here it is: Here it is, The tank volume is about 5 gallons, likely closer to 4.5 because of displacement. The display is 55x20x20cm and has a smaller sump. I dose Tropic Marin AFR daily on a dosing pump, and I dose these all manually...
www.reef2reef.com
here you go, I'll repost the old posts in that thread over the next few days
For me... making a weekly maintenance schedule and sticking to it religiously is #1.
Test Alk at least 3x / week. I do not ever raise it quickly if it is low. I just up my daily dose by a few minutes at 1.6 ml / minute and test, until it is at my ideal level again. This is true, even if the level somehow drops very low. The drop will typically not cause RTN / STN, but trying to fix it quickly can. It is usually a good thing, if ALK is trending a bit low as it indicates the coral are healthy and growing.
Full lighting coverage is important. Ideally I strive for my lighting footprint to match my tank's footprint. I set it the way I like it visually, with a PAR meter, THE FIRST TIME and leave it that way forever.
Of course, there has been enough said about flow, but I prefer turbulent, unpredictable, indirect flow.
If the coral are healthy, I stick to my maintenance plan, rather than trying to squeeze more color or growth out, with new products. Almost every product, other than good water / salt mix, Alk/Cal/Mag (or calcium reactor), is unnecessary. The more bored I am with mundane maintenance on an established system, the better the coral will color up over time.
Lastly, when something doesn't look right, I trust that minimal changes in a positive direction, will pay off eventually.
Test Alk at least 3x / week. I do not ever raise it quickly if it is low. I just up my daily dose by a few minutes at 1.6 ml / minute and test, until it is at my ideal level again. This is true, even if the level somehow drops very low. The drop will typically not cause RTN / STN, but trying to fix it quickly can. It is usually a good thing, if ALK is trending a bit low as it indicates the coral are healthy and growing.
Full lighting coverage is important. Ideally I strive for my lighting footprint to match my tank's footprint. I set it the way I like it visually, with a PAR meter, THE FIRST TIME and leave it that way forever.
Of course, there has been enough said about flow, but I prefer turbulent, unpredictable, indirect flow.
If the coral are healthy, I stick to my maintenance plan, rather than trying to squeeze more color or growth out, with new products. Almost every product, other than good water / salt mix, Alk/Cal/Mag (or calcium reactor), is unnecessary. The more bored I am with mundane maintenance on an established system, the better the coral will color up over time.
Lastly, when something doesn't look right, I trust that minimal changes in a positive direction, will pay off eventually.
Been in the game for quite sometime, here is my 2 yr old 600g system, 450g DT 150g sump. Frags to colonies in a period of 2 years. Less is more in my book, I don't have to many variables to pinpoint if something goes wrong and there is no magic sauce or secrets. I use Reef Crystal or reg IO as my choice of salt. Large refugium with Miracle Mud and Chaeto or your macro algae of choice. Large Skimmer, Calc Reactor, UV, tons of flow and good lighting. Stability and ADAPTABILITY long-term is key. Also not all acros like the same parameters as far as nutrients go and par ranges. So you have to find a sweet spot for different species of acros to flourish. My DT and Frag systems are identical in methods, but nutrients are on the opposite ends.
DT Parameters.
Calc 450.
Dkh 7
Mag 1450
Temp 79-80
Po4 .1 - .4
No3 5
Frag system is absolute zero in nutrients, growth is great in both systems, but the color in my frag system is very dull and mute on all my sps, BUT my Tenuis in my frag system has way more polyp extension and colors are more vibrant. So my point is nutrients play a big role, and it affects different acro species a different way. Atleast these are my observations in my system. Also I don't dose anything else aside from the effluent coming out of my reactor, I don't dose coral food or aminos, corals get fed by fish waste. Like I said in the beginning keep variables low, so it's easier to pinpoint a problem when something goes wrong. Just keep your methods simple, when I transitioned and upgraded from 300g DD, I did the same simple methods and applied to my new system and and here I am again, with a full blown SPS tank in a matter of 2 years.
DT Parameters.
Calc 450.
Dkh 7
Mag 1450
Temp 79-80
Po4 .1 - .4
No3 5
Frag system is absolute zero in nutrients, growth is great in both systems, but the color in my frag system is very dull and mute on all my sps, BUT my Tenuis in my frag system has way more polyp extension and colors are more vibrant. So my point is nutrients play a big role, and it affects different acro species a different way. Atleast these are my observations in my system. Also I don't dose anything else aside from the effluent coming out of my reactor, I don't dose coral food or aminos, corals get fed by fish waste. Like I said in the beginning keep variables low, so it's easier to pinpoint a problem when something goes wrong. Just keep your methods simple, when I transitioned and upgraded from 300g DD, I did the same simple methods and applied to my new system and and here I am again, with a full blown SPS tank in a matter of 2 years.
Here's my previous 300g
www.reef2reef.com
My current build
www.reef2reef.com
R2R Reef of the Month Spotlight: Rob's 300g Deep Dimension - January 2018
R2R Username: @robert s b. Build Thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/robs-300g-deep-dimensions.332903/ Introduction: I have been in the reefing hobby since 1996 close to 22 yrs. I've had fresh water aquariums since I was 7 yrs old, so I'm considered an old hand and pretty much a...
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My current build
Monster Build - Rob's 450g Build Thread!
Finally tore my 300g Deep Dimensions down to make way for my 450g. Heres a link to my 300. https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/r2r-reef-of-the-month-spotlight-robs-300g-deep-dimension-january-2018.392/ It was tough tearing it down, but I'm looking forward to the new canvas I have and see what I can...
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Koigula
Active Member
While this is great success, newcomers to hobby will be thrown off by thinking 0.5 ppm PO4 will work. The more mature and the more nutrient cycling, the higher the system tolerates phosphates. Many new tank would not fair well like that.Been in the game for quite sometime, here is my 2 yr old 600g system, 450g DT 150g sump. Frags to colonies in a period of 2 years. Less is more in my book, I don't have to many variables to pinpoint if something goes wrong and there is no magic sauce or secrets. I use Reef Crystal or reg IO as my choice of salt. Large refugium with Miracle Mud and Chaeto or your macro algae of choice. Large Skimmer, Calc Reactor, UV, tons of flow and good lighting. Stability and ADAPTABILITY long-term is key. Also not all acros like the same parameters as far as nutrients go and par ranges. So you have to find a sweet spot for different species of acros to flourish. My DT and Frag systems are identical in methods, but nutrients are on the opposite ends.
DT Parameters.
Calc 450.
Dkh 7
Mag 1450
Temp 79-80
Po4 .1 - .4
No3 5
Frag system is absolute zero in nutrients, growth is great in both systems, but the color in my frag system is very dull and mute on all my sps, BUT my Tenuis in my frag system has way more polyp extension and colors are more vibrant. So my point is nutrients play a big role, and it affects different acro species a different way. Atleast these are my observations in my system. Also I don't dose anything else aside from the effluent coming out of my reactor, I don't dose coral food or aminos, corals get fed by fish waste. Like I said in the beginning keep variables low, so it's easier to pinpoint a problem when something goes wrong. Just keep your methods simple, when I transitioned and upgraded from 300g DD, I did the same simple methods and applied to my new system and and here I am again, with a full blown SPS tank in a matter of 2 years.
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