Something isnt right....need some help!

[Softhammer]

I agree with Alk. I had the same issues for a bit. Dropped it to 8.5 and all is well. It’s painless to let it drop. Also if you think your corals are last in line for nutrients and are even remotely considering dosing nutrients, then why on earth are you using GFO?

 

[Torqued]

I am not currently using GFO, but I was to get rid of the cyano and GHA, which have plagued my tank since day one. If you have those, you have excess Po4 at minimum. The problem is, Ive had ZERO no3 detectable unless I add it (which I have to keep it above 0). Its a problem that either I starve the corals by letting the GHA get out of control, or I starve the corals by using too much GFO.....

I think this go around I am just going to feed heavy, and remove the algae manually if need be. I can control the Po4 if it gets too high using Phosephate-E (I like this better than GFO actually because you can be very precise about how much Po4 you remove). For me 1ml in my 215 total gallons, drops po4 by about .015. I think so long as I keep the Po4 above 0 but below .05, and keep the no3 above 3 but below 10, that is what I am targeting. Hopefully I can feed like crazy to get the corals back to health, but keep the po4 in check using the Phosphate-E....

 

[ihavecrabs]

I disagree on KH not being a problem in this case. For it not being potentially problematic you either need somewhat elevated nutrients (not the case with PO4 of 0.01 and NO3 of 3 especially when taking measurement accuracy in account) or high overall daily consumption (also not the case). Looking at the overal state it looks like you have starved your bacteria for to long so they no longer could outcompete the diatoms and cyano (if they actually ever established themselves given that you started with dead rock). The only way to reboot those is by running higher nitrate and phosphate levels (and dosing vinegar and bacteria may be needed as well if you want to speed this up).

I would never run, and never have run in the 22 years I have been reefing myself, a reef started with live rock with PO4 under 0.05-0.03 with NO3 under 5 the first year because it takes that long for the bacterial population to truly establish and stabilize and it takes at least that long when starting with dead rock.

I second everything above.

Dry rock is a PITA but once you get it seeded and allow bacteria to establish well enough, cyano and algae will have a much harder time getting a stringhold established.

If it were me, I would choose your bacteria of choice (turning off skimmer for a few hours after dosing only) and dose it regularly for a few weeks ensuring you have elevated no3 and po4. Dose both if you need to.

I have used the gallon container of microbacter with success. Seachem flourish for po4, and sodium nitrate for nitrate.

It'll get uglier before it gets better but it will stabilize.

 

[Perry]

IMHO,
Return to very basics. Good CUC, micro diversity, and no products. Just good ole water changes weekly at 20% until things stabilize. Allow coral to be 1st in line for nutrients, once you are confident, then slowly address gaps missed in husbandry. In essence, a good skimmer should suffice if all basics are met. In a newer system, many focus on perfect water, which is what causes corals too starve, in quest of an algae free setup, which unfortunately is yet to mature. Cyano, is usually a n&p imbalance, this is why i would suggest getting back to basics, this is likely a sign of knee jerk reactions with over use of products. I would suggest weekly water changes , with discontinued use of everything except skimmer. Siphon cyano during water changes. Feed your fish, but not to over feed. Once balance is achieved and your corals are showing PE, then you can add carbon, but introduce passive, or low flow through RX. If your in(feedings), is more than out(nutrient export), then update skimmer 1st. Should this not be sufficient, look into your CUC. Lastly, install additional export resources as last effort, ie(c-source/bac source dosing/ gfo). Personally, I prefer to use a quality salt over all others, with consistent water changes, mixed to as close to where I prefer maintained parameters. This way, larger water changes to not cause fluctuations. I also prefer a balanced salt, one that has trace balance as well. No need in dumping trace, or other products, to accommodate an inferior salt, just my 2 cents Cheers

 

[Perry]

BTW, I think you were Horace on another forum, i have followed you in the past, and i can vouge you totally know what you are doing! Best of luck

 

[PranK]

Few suggestions to drop dkh. I know OP was firm on keeping it at 10 but wondering if that opinion has changed now?

I'm in the process right now of dropping from 10.8 to ~9. I can't make any experienced suggestion here I'm just curious.

 

[Perry]

Few suggestions to drop dkh. I know OP was firm on keeping it at 10 but wondering if that opinion has changed now?

I'm in the process right now of dropping from 10.8 to ~9. I can't make any experienced suggestion here I'm just curious.

Hello,
There are many thst have reported, specifically with SPS corals, that with very low nutrients, one should strive for NSW values, hence, lower concentration of main minerals. Regardless, in my experience, over the last 15 years, all of my setups, including current, run alk at 7 to 7.5, even with soft, and lps corals. If one were to research ULNS, you will find that they all suggest NSW values, specifically Alk. Cheers

 

[Torqued]

Few suggestions to drop dkh. I know OP was firm on keeping it at 10 but wondering if that opinion has changed now?

I'm in the process right now of dropping from 10.8 to ~9. I can't make any experienced suggestion here I'm just curious.

So i cant say im FIRM. I used to be an 7.5-8.0 guy. I had much success there, but ive seen a trend to higher nutrients (specifically no3) and higher alk. If i need to run lower alk while i get the algae under control, im open.....

For the record. I turned off my carx last night because i think these guys are right. To deal with the algae, i need ulns for now, so running 7.5 to 8.0 is a good suggestion, and i should have known better.....

 

[Scorpius]

It's not a matter of knowing better it's just that stuff happens. I lost most of my acropora to my own stupid mistakes. Now I'm going a different direction. It'll work out

 

[DHill6]

So i cant say im FIRM. I used to be an 7.5-8.0 guy. I had much success there, but ive seen a trend to higher nutrients (specifically no3) and higher alk. If i need to run lower alk while i get the algae under control, im open.....

For the record. I turned off my carx last night because i think these guys are right. To deal with the algae, i need ulns for now, so running 7.5 to 8.0 is a good suggestion, and i should have known better.....

I was battling GHA myself, completely covering tonga branch, covering coral. In the end I removed the corals from branch, used peroxide and a syringe completely covering it three times, rinsed in RO water and put back into tank. Did a 20% wc at the same time. I lost two expensive SPS in the battle because of my mistake, it was at 7.5 and climbed to 10 due to misreading the syringe mark for dosing Red Sea DKH. That was my mistake but I don't regret the restart of the branch. I still shoot for 7.5, corals look better at that point for my tank. N03 I dose to keep it 3-5. After the reset, snails clean the branch once again, the SMdrop has also been collecting brown, black, green junk, turns the 5g bucket green when cleaning it so I guess it's doing the job, no gha in tank anymore.

 

[lakai]

It’s the Marco rock. It looks clean on the outside but inside there’s all sorts of sponges and sea shells that doesn’t even come off completely after bleaching and acid washing. The color of the rock also seems to be a blank canvas for any and all invasive algaes and undesirables.

 

[Rick.45cal]

So when you have nitrates, and almost no phosphates, REALLY REALLY bad things happen to your corals. They get bald patches and die (like your photos). My advice is dose some phosphates, and continue dosing nitrates. Stop worrying about having phosphates lower than some number that’s been arbitrarily chosen by you or someone else. Clearly you know what happy corals look like. So increase your nutrients (both Nitrate and Phosphate) and find where everything starts looking happy and keep it there.

If you get algae deal with it via grazers, and increased CUC. As the tank matures algae will become less and less of an issue. You obviously have the ability to keep nice tanks, stop micro-managing this one and it will become like your others.

 

[PranK]

Doesn't matter how experienced we all are, there's not much better for all of us than being able to bounce some ideas off each other. Two people are smarter than one.
Please keep us updated. I was so set on 10 dkh for so long and am now dropping so this thread is timely for me.

 

[Paul J]

Get that ICP test results! That should give you a heads up on the water.
Chemical warfare yep thats one you have, when coral stress I seen that before. Place carbon in the system ASAP. (Not dosing carbon) change it out every week for a few weeks. Alk keep that level but check Calcium I recommend keeping in the 400 range not much higher.

 

[SinkyShippy]

What test kit do you use to get such accurate results?

 

[Torqued]

What test kit do you use to get such accurate results?

For which test? I use a variety.

Hanna for Alk and phosphate
Salifert for mag and calc
Redsea no3
Seachem iodide

 

[Torqued]

It’s the Marco rock. It looks clean on the outside but inside there’s all sorts of sponges and sea shells that doesn’t even come off completely after bleaching and acid washing. The color of the rock also seems to be a blank canvas for any and all invasive algaes and undesirables.

I think that is def part of it. Never going to use dry rock again. I will prob just go with tampa bay rock from here out. All the "live rock" from my lfss here im atl is rock from either dry (like Marco) or from the ocean and sitting in boxes for months and cured...which likely is not much better than Marco.

My po4 is now up to .05 ppm. Ive not dosed anything, just fed more. No3 is holding at 3 to 5. No more po4 removers....

Whatever algae is growing on my sand is growing fast though. Its brownish red, same stuff in the pics. The last WC i vaccumed the sand and got 75% of it...but its already grown back in just 6 days. Too small to pull, but some can be blown from rocks.....

I will take more pics soon. I really need to get some good macro shots

 

[roblox84]

I would never run, and never have run in the 22 years I have been reefing myself, a reef started with live rock with PO4 under 0.05-0.03 with NO3 under 5 the first year because it takes that long for the bacterial population to truly establish and stabilize and it takes at least that long when starting with dead rock.

This right here is what I wish I knew when starting my tanks from years ago. I had the exact same issues as you to the tee and instead of letting nitrates and phosphates to creep up on brand new tanks I immediately just started doing weekly water changes and running GFO. I was basically feeding the algae with all those water changes.

I stopped doing water changes and it seems to have taken my tank a good year to get the necessary p04 and n03 to rise and stabilize the tank, of course after killing every coral first. But hey at least all my hair algae and cyano is gone, lol. I don't think there is any other solution besides just waiting and just keeping the algae blown away from your corals which I was not about to attempt every day for the past year.

 

[Neoalchemist]

I think that is def part of it. Never going to use dry rock again. I will prob just go with tampa bay rock from here out. All the "live rock" from my lfss here im atl is rock from either dry (like Marco) or from the ocean and sitting in boxes for months and cured...which likely is not much better than Marco.

My po4 is now up to .05 ppm. Ive not dosed anything, just fed more. No3 is holding at 3 to 5. No more po4 removers....

Whatever algae is growing on my sand is growing fast though. Its brownish red, same stuff in the pics. The last WC i vaccumed the sand and got 75% of it...but its already grown back in just 6 days. Too small to pull, but some can be blown from rocks.....

I will take more pics soon. I really need to get some good macro shots

This sound like dinoflagellates. Some normal every day husbandry solutions will likely make it worse and in some cases much worse. Hold off on any carbon dosing or gfo please until you can confirmhttps://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?posts/3578648

 

[Torqued]

This sound like dinoflagellates. Some normal every day husbandry solutions will likely make it worse and in some cases much worse. Hold off on any carbon dosing or gfo please until you can confirmhttps://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?posts/3578648

Yep that is what it is....... Confirmed a couple days ago. This explains why I've had such a rough time with this tank.......ive not dealt with this one before. I will beat it... Now that i know what I'm up against.