Spaghetti Worm toxic to fish?

[NanoMixer]

Ok before you all think I’m crazy, yes I googled this for about two hours before posting here. Anyway I have a nano 20g with a couple of clownfish and some inverts. There’s this giant spaghetti worm that’s been giving me the heebies, so I pulled it out today. Basically just continuously wrapped the threads around feeding tongs I have until I got to the body which got mushed as I pulled it out so I can’t identify it that way.

Fast forward five minutes: my two clowns are darting and flashing on everything, and one of them alternates between that and floating sideways at the bottom in a corner. This has continued for an hour. The ONLY THING that has changed was me removing that spaghetti worm, which has me thinking that the might release a toxin if injured, like the Medusa worm? I know there is a type of spaghetti worm that is classified as Loimia Medusa.

I also found a forum where a reefer states he had skin irritation after touching a spaghetti worm.

Any ideas? Currently running carbon just in case there is a toxin. It’s the craziest thing.

 

[vetteguy53081]

S

Ok before you all think I’m crazy, yes I googled this for about two hours before posting here. Anyway I have a nano 20g with a couple of clownfish and some inverts. There’s this giant spaghetti worm that’s been giving me the heebies, so I pulled it out today. Basically just continuously wrapped the threads around feeding tongs I have until I got to the body which got mushed as I pulled it out so I can’t identify it that way.

Fast forward five minutes: my two clowns are darting and flashing on everything, and one of them alternates between that and floating sideways at the bottom in a corner. This has continued for an hour. The ONLY THING that has changed was me removing that spaghetti worm, which has me thinking that the might release a toxin if injured, like the Medusa worm? I know there is a type of spaghetti worm that is classified as Loimia Medusa.

I also found a forum where a reefer states he had skin irritation after touching a spaghetti worm.

Any ideas? Currently running carbon just in case there is a toxin. It’s the craziest thing.

Spaghetti worm actually very reef safe and will only impact very weak specimens
They eat detritus and uneaten food

 

[NanoMixer]

S

Spaghetti worm actually very reef safe and will only impact very weak specimens
They eat detritus and uneaten food

Yes I am aware that they are reef safe. I’m curious to know if, it happens to be a spaghetti worm Loimia Medusa, it gives off toxins when injured, like Medusa worms. Medusa worms are also reef safe unless they are injured, then they give off a toxin that affects the gills of fish quickly and fatally. Both clown fish are now gasping for air and are lethargic with labored breathing.

 

[TX_REEF]

Is there any chance you disturbed the substrate significantly while pulling the worm out? Perhaps you dislodged some gas bubbles or other noxious substance that was before securely housed beneath the sand bed? Might be worth a chemistry test

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Yes I am aware that they are reef safe. I’m curious to know if, it happens to be a spaghetti worm Loimia Medusa, it gives off toxins when injured, like Medusa worms. Medusa worms are also reef safe unless they are injured, then they give off a toxin that affects the gills of fish quickly and fatally. Both clown fish are now gasping for air and are lethargic with labored breathing.

Medusa worms are not true worms, they are sea cucumbers. Sea cucumbers are well known to release toxins.

I don't know about spaghetti worms though.....

Jay

 

[NanoMixer]

Is there any chance you disturbed the substrate significantly while pulling the worm out? Perhaps you dislodged some gas bubbles or other noxious substance that was before securely housed beneath the sand bed? Might be worth a chemistry test

No, it was in the live rock. It also didn’t have a tube made out of sand, it was just living in the live rock, so that also makes me wonder if it’s not the garden variety of spaghetti worm. I tested all parameters today.
NH4: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 2ppm
Phosphate: 0 (struggling to keep nitrates and phosphates up after a Dino bloom about a month ago, sigh, but that’s a tale for another day)
Salinity: 1.025

I use salifert for nitrate and Hannah for PO4 so I’m decently confident those are accurate.

All of my inverts (snail CUC and a pistol shrimp), my softie, my Zoas, and even my nem are unaffected and unphased, which also made me think a toxin that only affects fish? It happened so quickly or I wouldn’t believe it.

 

[NanoMixer]

Is there something that noxious in the sand bed that would cause this? Like if we put aside the spaghetti worm, what else would cause the clowns to take a turn for the worse so suddenly, but not affect any inverts? We do have nassarius, and ceriths in the sand bed and they’re all ok.

 

[NanoMixer]

Update: removed offending piece of live rock and dosed with StressGuard. One of the clowns is coming to, and I think will make it. The other is still bobbing with labored breathing. Anyone who has accidentally caused an apocalypse with a Medusa who can comment on how the fish acted?

 

[NanoMixer]

Medusa worms are not true worms, they are sea cucumbers. Sea cucumbers are well known to release toxins.

I don't know about spaghetti worms though.....

Jay

JACKPOT to anyone still following along. This study confirms that spaghetti worms do, in fact, contain chemical deterrents. It explains why no one in the tank eats their tentacles. I bet when I ripped the tentacles out of the hole, it released a large quantity of this deterrent/potential toxin that became significant in a nano tank setting. The study also mentions both species of spaghetti worms (E. Crassicornis and Loimia Medusa). http://home.olemiss.edu/~bygaston/BMS2002_full.pdf

 

[TX_REEF]

Thanks you for your unwilling research

 

[NanoMixer]

Thanks you for your unwilling research

FINAL UPDATE: everything is alive and well! The clowns came to, and no more near death experiences