Spending time with AI

[mrhammy]

My parameters were a bit off: high alk, low Mg, and low Ca, and I needed to adjust them. Making changes slowly enough not to shock things is always scary, so I talked to my friendly AI. Talking to the AI, I came up with a plan to go at a good speed and check in with my Triton test results daily, or even more. It did remarkably well; it predicted results as well as it learned how my tank reacted. I didn't do this blind; I validated its advice to make sure it didn't do anything crazy. It was very nice to have a sounding board, and I have started to trust it a bit more. Today I added a load of coral from a frag swap (spent way too much money (don't tell my wife) and I plan to monitor and talk to the AI for advice and continue to validate its thoughts. Here is what it has to say:

Hey Reef2Reef!
I wanted to share a quick success story on my 150-gallon mixed reef. Over the past week, my AI collaborator and I (Mrhammy) teamed up to tackle a major chemistry imbalance after my magnesium tanked to a critical 924 ppm, bottoming out my calcium at 355 ppm and spiking my alkalinity to 13 dKH. Together, we mapped out a precise recovery protocol: we paused my All-For-Reef, executed a strategic 20% water change, and used a dosing pump to slowly deliver 250ml/day of Brightwell Magnesion over a 24-hour cycle. To break the calcium bottleneck, we layered in daily manual doses of Seachem Reef Complete up to 60ml. The teamwork paid off perfectly—my parameters are now completely stabilized for a big live sale haul this weekend! Magnesium is sitting at a rock-solid 1,322 ppm, Calcium rebounded to 407 ppm, and Alkalinity has safely drifted down to 10.99 dKH (heading for a target of 10.0 dKH). With my Trident NP showing perfect nutrients (12.6 ppm NO3 / 0.08 ppm PO4) and my AI Blades set to a 30-day light acclimation mode, my 8-10 new high-end corals—including a Papa Smurf Tenuis, Torches, and a massive Acanthophyllia—are opening up beautifully!

 

[EnterName]

Dosing 250mL/day of Brightwell Magnesion in your 150gal tank is roughly 3.3 times Brightwell's suggested maximum: "add this product at the maximum rate of 10 ml per 20 US-gallons daily"

150gal / 20gal ⋅ 10mL/day = 75mL/day
250mL/day / 75mL/day ≈ 3.3​

This factor of 3.3 doesn't account for the magnesium in Seachem Reef Complete, so it's only a lower bound. In reality, you exceeded the maximum by a bit more than 3.3 times. Randy recommends staying below 25ppm a day "out of concern for potentially toxic impurities in the supplement (ammonia, heavy metals, etc.)". You added roughly 43ppm a day exceeding this recommendation as well.

I'm really glad it worked out for you, but it's another reminder that you really have to be careful when relying on these models for direct dosing advice. If it had made the same mistake with alkalinity, things might have ended very differently.

 

[mrhammy]

Dosing 250mL/day of Brightwell Magnesion in your 150gal tank is roughly 3.3 times Brightwell's suggested maximum: "add this product at the maximum rate of 10 ml per 20 US-gallons daily"

150gal / 20gal ⋅ 10mL/day = 75mL/day
250mL/day / 75mL/day ≈ 3.3​

This factor of 3.3 doesn't account for the magnesium in Seachem Reef Complete, so it's only a lower bound. In reality, you exceeded the maximum by a bit more than 3.3 times. Randy recommends staying below 25ppm a day "out of concern for potentially toxic impurities in the supplement (ammonia, heavy metals, etc.)". You added roughly 43ppm a day exceeding this recommendation as well.

I'm really glad it worked out for you, but it's another reminder that you really have to be careful when relying on these models for direct dosing advice. If it had made the same mistake with alkalinity, things might have ended very differently.

You are correct that the bottle would have me dose 50 ml or less per day, but I found articles saying that for large adjustments rather than maintenance, 50 ppm is an acceptable max. With so many different opinions out there, I did opt for the faster change.
I was starting very slowly at first, but it would have taken almost 45 days to make the needed change, and my things would have suffered in the meantime. To make it safer, I used a dosing pump with hourly doses, which made the transition much smoother over a 24-hour period.
Thanks for calling out that I was very aggressive with this change, and I’m definitely not an expert. I used an AI to help me aggregate the information, and this is in no way a recommendation as the best solution for anyone else—just the solution that seems to have worked for me. Time will tell!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I have to say I am skeptical of this problem and solution.

The situation you posted sounds a lot more like test error or low salinity with alk overdosing than a problem best solved by adding things as you did.

I think some discussion of how it’s possible to attain these stated values is worthwhile.

Are you measuring salinity? What is it? Measured how?

With or without AI assistance, can you explain how you got to extremely low magnesium, somewhat low calcium and very high alkalinity? That situation would require a long time and effort to attain.

 

[mrhammy]

I was using Fritz High Alk salt mix and All For Reef. And honestly got lazy over the months. I did weekly 10% water changes, and my salt was 1.025 with a calibrated refractometer, and I walked away. I was testing with Trident alone, and it drifted out of calibration as well. I Hanna-checked and recalibrated my Trident and found I had a mess. The start was a very high alkalinity of over 13, but as i tested more, I also found the low mag and cal so I got a lesson in trusting one test tool. I lost my hammers and torches, and it broke my heart, so I finally got off my butt and tested better. As many have said, nothing good happens fast, but bad things can... but sometimes bad can happen slowly if you get too set in your ways. I am switching to a more stable salt with Tropic Marin Pro to try and keep this in better balance and will be testing with Hannas as well as the Trident that makes you lazy

Your question of how I messed up so bad: I am unsure; it was just a lazy summer of not paying enough attention

 

[mrhammy]

Or we can look at what the AI tells me, tell me if this is accurate:


can you explain how i got to extremely low magnesium, somewhat low calcium and very high alkalinity?





The imbalance you experienced—critically low magnesium, low calcium, and sky-high alkalinity—is a classic chain-reaction phenomenon in reef aquariums known as chemical precipitation.
It all started with the magnesium, which acted as the first domino to fall. Here is the step-by-step breakdown of exactly how your water chemistry ended up in that specific bottleneck.

Step 1: The Root Cause — How Magnesium Dropped
Magnesium is the unsung hero of reef chemistry. In a healthy tank, it should be around 1,300 to 1,350 ppm. It likely dropped down to 924 ppm due to two main factors:

• The "High Alk" Salt Mix: Your previous salt (Fritz Redline High Alk) is specifically formulated to mix with a massive amount of alkalinity (~11.5 dKH) to fuel fast coral growth. However, high-alkalinity salt mixes require the aquarium to consume magnesium at a much faster rate to keep those extra carbonates stable.
• Natural Consumption: Over time, coralline algae and corals naturally pull magnesium out of the water to build their structures. If your regular water changes weren't replenishing it as fast as the tank was using it, the level slowly trickled down over months without you noticing.

Step 2: The Domino Effect — Why Calcium Dropped
In normal seawater, calcium and alkalinity naturally want to bind together to form calcium carbonate (limestone). If they do this in the open water, they instantly crash out as solid white crystals, becoming completely useless to your corals.
Magnesium's primary job is to act as a chemical shield. It attaches itself to the calcium and carbonate molecules, blocking them from binding together. This allows the water to hold onto far higher levels of calcium and alkalinity than it normally could.
When your magnesium dropped below 1,000 ppm, that shield completely vanished. Your calcium and alkalinity began violently binding together in the open water and "snowballing" out of solution. Because the calcium was physically falling out of the water column as microscopic precipitation, your calcium level plummeted to 352 ppm.

Step 3: The Paradox — Why Alkalinity Spiked to 13 dKH
If calcium and alkalinity were crashing out together, you would expect both numbers to drop. However, your alkalinity soared to a dangerous 13 dKH. This happened because of your dosing regimen:

• The Balanced Dosing Trap: You were dosing 30 ml a day of All-For-Reef. All-For-Reef is a beautifully balanced product that adds calcium and alkalinity in a perfect 1:1 ratio.
• Unequal Consumption: Because your magnesium was missing and causing a massive precipitation event, your tank's biological ability to use these elements completely stalled out.
• The Accumulation: In a reef tank, a spike in alkalinity is almost always caused by an over-dosing of buffers relative to the tank's actual growth rate. Because your corals couldn't use the elements properly, the daily 30 ml of All-For-Reef began pooling up in the water column. Carbonates accumulate much faster visually on a test kit than calcium does, causing your alkalinity to register a massive, artificial spike up to 13 dKH.

 

[Garf]

I was using Fritz High Alk salt mix and All For Reef. And honestly got lazy over the months. I did weekly 10% water changes, and my salt was 1.025 with a calibrated refractometer, and I walked away. I was testing with Trident alone, and it drifted out of calibration as well. I Hanna-checked and recalibrated my Trident and found I had a mess. The start was a very high alkalinity of over 13, but as i tested more, I also found the low mag and cal so I got a lesson in trusting one test tool. I lost my hammers and torches, and it broke my heart, so I finally got off my butt and tested better. As many have said, nothing good happens fast, but bad things can... but sometimes bad can happen slowly if you get too set in your ways. I am switching to a more stable salt with Tropic Marin Pro to try and keep this in better balance and will be testing with Hannas as well as the Trident that makes you lazy

Your question of how I messed up so bad: I am unsure; it was just a lazy summer of not paying enough attention

How are you calibrating your refractometer?

 

[mrhammy]

How are you calibrating your refractometer?

both RODI water and a calibration solution ... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077TQWN5X?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_3&th=1

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Or we can look at what the AI tells me, tell me if this is accurate:


can you explain how i got to extremely low magnesium, somewhat low calcium and very high alkalinity?





The imbalance you experienced—critically low magnesium, low calcium, and sky-high alkalinity—is a classic chain-reaction phenomenon in reef aquariums known as chemical precipitation.
It all started with the magnesium, which acted as the first domino to fall. Here is the step-by-step breakdown of exactly how your water chemistry ended up in that specific bottleneck.

Step 1: The Root Cause — How Magnesium Dropped
Magnesium is the unsung hero of reef chemistry. In a healthy tank, it should be around 1,300 to 1,350 ppm. It likely dropped down to 924 ppm due to two main factors:

• The "High Alk" Salt Mix: Your previous salt (Fritz Redline High Alk) is specifically formulated to mix with a massive amount of alkalinity (~11.5 dKH) to fuel fast coral growth. However, high-alkalinity salt mixes require the aquarium to consume magnesium at a much faster rate to keep those extra carbonates stable.
• Natural Consumption: Over time, coralline algae and corals naturally pull magnesium out of the water to build their structures. If your regular water changes weren't replenishing it as fast as the tank was using it, the level slowly trickled down over months without you noticing.

Step 2: The Domino Effect — Why Calcium Dropped
In normal seawater, calcium and alkalinity naturally want to bind together to form calcium carbonate (limestone). If they do this in the open water, they instantly crash out as solid white crystals, becoming completely useless to your corals.
Magnesium's primary job is to act as a chemical shield. It attaches itself to the calcium and carbonate molecules, blocking them from binding together. This allows the water to hold onto far higher levels of calcium and alkalinity than it normally could.
When your magnesium dropped below 1,000 ppm, that shield completely vanished. Your calcium and alkalinity began violently binding together in the open water and "snowballing" out of solution. Because the calcium was physically falling out of the water column as microscopic precipitation, your calcium level plummeted to 352 ppm.

Step 3: The Paradox — Why Alkalinity Spiked to 13 dKH
If calcium and alkalinity were crashing out together, you would expect both numbers to drop. However, your alkalinity soared to a dangerous 13 dKH. This happened because of your dosing regimen:

• The Balanced Dosing Trap: You were dosing 30 ml a day of All-For-Reef. All-For-Reef is a beautifully balanced product that adds calcium and alkalinity in a perfect 1:1 ratio.
• Unequal Consumption: Because your magnesium was missing and causing a massive precipitation event, your tank's biological ability to use these elements completely stalled out.
• The Accumulation: In a reef tank, a spike in alkalinity is almost always caused by an over-dosing of buffers relative to the tank's actual growth rate. Because your corals couldn't use the elements properly, the daily 30 ml of All-For-Reef began pooling up in the water column. Carbonates accumulate much faster visually on a test kit than calcium does, causing your alkalinity to register a massive, artificial spike up to 13 dKH.

The AI does NOT have a plausible explanation for the magnesium drop.

Magnesium CANNOT drop hundreds of ppm without calcium dropping (or being added) in THOUSANDS of ppm.

With the methods you propose, that cannot have happened.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

both RODI water and a calibration solution ... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077TQWN5X?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_3&th=1

Commercial standards are notoriouslty inaccurate.

This one may be OK or not.

These are the two real possible explanations (IMO):

1. Salinity is much lower than you think and you overdosed on alk and calcium, causing high alk. That is plausible. If this is accurate, the magnesium boost created a problem scenario that will be hard to fix: very high magnesium at normal salinity, or normal magnesium at low salinity. Water changes are the only anseer to this scenario.

2. The magnesium testing is in error (VERY COMMON). You dosed it up and created a very high magnesium scenario out of a testing issue. Overdose on alk pushed alk up. Calcium test may be real or not. That is plausible.

 

[EnterName]

both RODI water and a calibration solution ... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077TQWN5X?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_3&th=1

Commercial standards are notoriouslty inaccurate.

This one may be OK or not.

These are the two real possible explanations (IMO):

1. Salinity is much lower than you think and you overdosed on alk and calcium, causing high alk. That is plausible. If this is accurate, the magnesium boost created a problem scenario that will be hard to fix: very high magnesium at normal salinity, or normal magnesium at low salinity. Water changes are the only anseer to this scenario.

2. The magnesium testing is in error (VERY COMMON). You dosed it up and created a very high magnesium scenario out of a testing issue. Overdose on alk pushed alk up. Calcium test may be real or not. That is plausible.

Don't magnesium tests rely on calcium being within a reasonable/expected range to work?

Would be interesting to see an ICP test. I doubt only the things we can measure at home are out of their target ranges when magnesium is actually like 400ppm below target.

 

[mrhammy]

Commercial standards are notoriouslty inaccurate.

This one may be OK or not.

These are the two real possible explanations (IMO):

1. Salinity is much lower than you think and you overdosed on alk and calcium, causing high alk. That is plausible. If this is accurate, the magnesium boost created a problem scenario that will be hard to fix: very high magnesium at normal salinity, or normal magnesium at low salinity. Water changes are the only anseer to this scenario.

2. The magnesium testing is in error (VERY COMMON). You dosed it up and created a very high magnesium scenario out of a testing issue. Overdose on alk pushed alk up. Calcium test may be real or not. That is plausible.

Thanks for the info. I am always looking to learn more. What I have really learned is that testing errors are a real thing, and you should not trust one test.

Again, thanks for your time and feedback. You have most likely forgotten more than I will ever know in this arena

 

[mrhammy]

Just to add updated tests: I ran a Hanna mag test; it came in at 1300, and the Triton last night read 1337, so it's within the margin of error and relatively similar. I also tested my salinity after recalibrating the refractometer; it reads 1.024 right now, at least as far as my old eyes can tell! For now, I will keep monitoring. Again, thanks to all for your thoughts and feedback. I came here to get other opinions on my changes, and you all delivered! I feel blessed to get some input from @Randy Holmes-Farley the gold-source chemistry info!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Just to add updated tests: I ran a Hanna mag test; it came in at 1300, and the Triton last night read 1337, so it's within the margin of error and relatively similar. I also tested my salinity after recalibrating the refractometer; it reads 1.024 right now, at least as far as my old eyes can tell! For now, I will keep monitoring. Again, thanks to all for your thoughts and feedback. I came here to get other opinions on my changes, and you all delivered! I feel blessed to get some input from @Randy Holmes-Farley the gold-source chemistry info!

Assuming the current values are correct, they suggest the initial problem was at least partly from low salinity, not low magnesium, and now you cannot raise the salinity to 35 ppt without magnesium going too high (IMO). Addition of magnesium was not the best solution, IMO. Increasing salinity first would have been.

Let's look closer.

If you tried to raise that 1.024 (31.8 ppt) to 35 ppt (sg = 1.0264), the magnesium will rise from 1337 to 1471 ppm.

Bear in mind that adding 350 ppm of magnesium itself boosts salinity by about 1450 ppm (1.5 ppt). Adding calcium also boosts it.

If the salinity started around 30 ppt, it explains the low magnesium and calcium readings. natural seawater would have a magnesium level of about 1100 ppm and calcium about 360 ppm.. Raising that salinity to 35 ppt would put it close to 1300 ppm and 420 ppm, respectively.

 

[Garf]

it reads 1.024 right now

Assuming that's accurate, its 10% lower than I keep mine, and correspondingly you would expect calcium, alkalinity and magnesium to be 10% lower.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Expanding on this issue, why is the sg = 1.024 not optimal? Because other ions, such as potassium will be low.

Remember, it is not salt mix at 1.024, but salt mix at an even lower value artificially boosted with a lot of extra magnesium and calcium (and the sulfate and chloride that necessarily comes with them) to get to 1.024. Thus, potassium and other ions may be 15% lower than normal for that mix.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Hey GARF, what's the story on your location? You into raising cattle or something? lol

 

[mrhammy]

I will work my SG up to 1.026 over the next week-10 days via ATO, but keep an eye on levels...

Lots of ham in this conversation, it seems!

 

[Garf]

Hey GARF, what's the story on your location? You into raising cattle or something? lol

Rare beef is my favourite food, Reef beef is my favourite fishy related YouTube. You are only the second person to highlight my fictitious location, lol.

 

[Fish Fan]

Rare beef is my favourite food, Reef beef is my favourite fishy related YouTube. You are only the second person to highlight my fictitious location, lol.

Well, I'm either a moron (I guess we knew this!) or at the least geographically challenged. I assumed that "Beefingham" was a real town in the UK

I mean, I live right next to a town called "Farmington", would "Beefingham" really be so hard to believe