Sponge ID / preventing zoa growth

[jmschrader19]

Does anyone know the name of the sponge? The only issue I’m having with it right now is that it’s preventing my zoas from growing out.

 

[lucyretz]

turnicate/sea squirt likely. possible to take the rock out briefly for manual removal with tweezers?

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Does anyone know the name of the sponge? The only issue I’m having with it right now is that it’s preventing my zoas from growing out.

Not sure on the name (sponge ID can be really difficult - see the second quote below), but the location of that one definitely isn't ideal. The good news is that you can see it's not actually hurting the coral (so it's not a "bad" sponge); the bad news is that removing it from there without hurting the zoas could be tough. If you want to get it off the zoas without getting rid of the sponge altogether, you could try and cut as much of the sponge away as possible and just place it somewhere else. For removal ideas, see the first quote below, but - again - removing it without damaging the zoas may not be easy.

Generally speaking, the easiest way to remove sponges is to scrape them off (the best recommendation I've seen for this is to scrape it off and suction it out).

Other suggestions include exposing the sponge to air (obviously not a guaranteed solution, and definitely not viable for this situation); hydrogen peroxide dipping the sponge (again, not viable here); injecting the sponge with hydrogen peroxide, vinegar, boiling water, or air; microbubbles in the display; and a few more. Predation is not usually a good solution for this issue,

Pineapple sponges are from the genus Sycon - The more common pineapple sponges in our tanks can pretty easily be ID’ed by sight (short, round, spiky/fuzzy, has a little spiky crown/funnel looking thing around the opening). Some other pineapple sponge species are much harder to differentiate, and - like many (likely most) sponge species alive - may require microscopic examination and/or DNA testing to actually ID accurately. These sponges in the pics are fuzzy, but they lack the typical “pineapple crown” around the opening, so, they might be pineapple sponges or they might not.

Personally, I wouldn’t feel comfortable giving an ID beyond just saying they’re sponges, as these ones just don’t have enough obviously unique characteristics that I can see to ID from.

Anyway, here’s a good Sponge ID resource for anyone who’s interested- as mentioned, though, sometimes DNA is the best indicator for telling sponges apart:

https://www.fao.org/3/i7773e/i7773e.pdf

And, here’s a decent example of why sponge ID by non-microscopic sight is not always reliable:

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/A-G-Live-specimens-of-Lissodendoryx-species-illustrating-variations-in-shape-and_fig6_248716402

 

[jmschrader19]

turnicate/sea squirt likely. possible to take the rock out briefly for manual removal with tweezers?

I think I can remove the small rock the zoas are on. If not, would removal of the tunicate in the tank be a bad idea?

 

[jmschrader19]

Not sure on the name (sponge ID can be really difficult - see the second quote below), but the location of that one definitely isn't ideal. The good news is that you can see it's not actually hurting the coral (so it's not a "bad" sponge); the bad news is that removing it from there without hurting the zoas could be tough. If you want to get it off the zoas without getting rid of the sponge altogether, you could try and cut as much of the sponge away as possible and just place it somewhere else. For removal ideas, see the first quote below, but - again - removing it without damaging the zoas may not be easy.

Very helpful information, thank you! The zoas aren’t bothered by the sponge at all, they open up every day and are open all day long. They just don’t have any where to grow now

My other fear is that this sponge becomes invasive. It looks like it’s sending out ”feelers” so it can start spreading onto nearby areas.

 

[EricR]

No sponge expert but I've been fighting a sponge invasion in one patch of zoas for many months.

I, periodically, pull out the rock, tweeze and dental tool off/out all the sponge best I can, paint on some H2O2 for a couple of minutes, rinse then return.
*within a couple/few weeks the sponge mass is back so I'm missing something

Good luck and following...

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

No sponge expert but I've been fighting a sponge invasion in one patch of zoas for many months.

I, periodically, pull out the rock, tweeze and dental tool off/out all the sponge best I can, paint on some H2O2 for a couple of minutes, rinse then return.
*within a couple/few weeks the sponge mass is back so I'm missing something

Good luck and following...

Yeah, unfortunately some sponges will come back basically as long as there's a piece of it left (which is why I like the recommendation to suction out as much as you can, but even that's not foolproof), so removal isn't always easy. In cases like that, the only advice I have (which may not be terribly helpful) is to try and find the cause so you can deal with the root of the problem:

Most sponges do, yes. If there’s a high level of silicates and a sufficient amount of food for the sponges (including things like Dissolved Organic Matter, bacteria, phytoplankton, and some Particulate Organic Matter), then you may see a population boom with sponges.

 

[jmschrader19]

No sponge expert but I've been fighting a sponge invasion in one patch of zoas for many months.

I, periodically, pull out the rock, tweeze and dental tool off/out all the sponge best I can, paint on some H2O2 for a couple of minutes, rinse then return.
*within a couple/few weeks the sponge mass is back so I'm missing something

Good luck and following...

Thanks for sharing, it sounds like this may be an uphill battle

 

[jmschrader19]

This stuff is RELENTLESS to say the least. I’ve been manually removing during water changes but it just keeps spreading and becoming harder to remove.

Is there anything that might eat it?

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Is there anything that might eat it?

Maybe (see the first quote below). You could try Aquilonastra starfish (called Asterinas in the hobby), but they may or may not eat the sponge, and - depending on who you ask - they may also potentially eat your zoas (see the second quote below).

Just to put this out there - the problem with using biological controls (i.e. something that eats it) with sponges is that there are a ton of different sponges, some of which look indistinguishable from others. Some of these sponges are inedible or extremely undesirable foods to some species (either because of chemical defenses* or just because of taste preferences) while being highly desirable to other species. So, even if you pull in a known sponge-eating species of fish/starfish/whatever, there's no guarantee it will eat the sponge you want it to eat. Also, many of these sponge-eating species eat other things (like coral) that you might not want them eating.

Long story short, manual removal is probably your best option for sponges until more study has been on both specific sponges and specific sponge-eaters, but you can try it if you want.

*Just as a note on the chemical defenses of sponges, many sponges produce chemicals to avoid being eaten. Some of these chemicals are more generalized, some of them are specifically anti-fish, some are specifically anti-echinoderm (starfish, urchin, etc.), etc. So, again, some things might eat one sponge but not another, and because of the whole indistinguishable thing mentioned above, the sponges that are and are not being eaten may look pretty much identical (some may be distinguished/ID'ed under microscopic investigation, others may need to be DNA tested to be distinguished/ID'ed).

Just my two cents here.

Personally, I like them, but they do tend to reproduce very quickly.

I've heard some species eat corals and others don't - I've seen convincing evidence for one species (a very darkly colored one), and one piece of somewhat convincing evidence for one different species, but the vast majority of these guys seem to be at least mostly safe.

With regards to whether or not the average "Asterina" (technically Aquilonastra - Asterina is a separate genus within the Asterinidae family) eat corals, it might be a species specific thing, it might be a you have way too many starfish so they're out of other food options thing, it might be they're eating the slime coat/mucus on the coral rather than the coral itself (see below), or they might just opportunistically eat unhealthy corals. Based on how starfish eat, it seems plausible to me that it may also be coincidental (i.e. the star goes to eat something off the coral and the coral just happens to be one that is able to be negatively effected by the star's everted stomach). Regardless, Zoas are just about the only coral I've heard about regular "Asterina" stars potentially going after with any sort of frequency.

A quote I like to refer to for this:

It's an Aquilonastra spp. starfish and is a great scavenger. I see them with anywhere from 4 to 12 legs. The whole discusion around them seems to me excellent examples of misidentification, mistaken behaviour and assumed causality based just on heresay without looking at the research. Asterina spp starfish are preditary but only reproduce sexually and are shortlived so while it's possible some might get into a tank even if it did happen it's not going to be around long. Aquilonastra are one of the uncommon species that reproduce fissiparous or by splitting so are easy to identify by the different sized legs regrown after splitting. They perform an important function not only feeding off algae films but also feeding off microbial films including those on corals (at least ones that don't sting). FYI the mucus coating on corals ages and corals have to periodicely shed it to renew it and maintian healthy microbial processes (Ref 1, Ref 2). If Aquilonastra are feeding on zoas or softies I'll argue they are either benign or even beneficial as they may be reducing the unhealthy older mucus which can be full of unhealthy microbes which the animal is trying to get rid of and are far more likely to be the actual problem.

Here's an example, this Toadstool is doing one of it's periodic sheddings. The Aquilonastra have been in this system for years but only climb onto the Toadstool when it's shedding. In the first picture you can see the old mucus film, Aquilonastra starfish and areas they have cleaned off. The second picture shows the Toadstool a week later.

 

[Timfish]

This stuff is RELENTLESS to say the least. I’ve been manually removing during water changes but it just keeps spreading and becoming harder to remove.

Is there anything that might eat it?

Have you tried straws to siphon it off with water changes? Sponges are essential for healthy reef ecosystems and they will go through cycles just like everything else in your system. Correct me if I'm wrong but I have hte sense this is still a fairly new system. If so I would just keep removing the worst as it's liekly going to slow down as other sponges start growing and competing for the DOC in the system.

But if it bothers you and the rock is easy to remove you can try dipping the rock in 6:1 aquarium water to H2O2 for a two minutes. This can be hard on the zoas so I woulnd't repeat for a week or so if needed. Keep in mind you likely have this sponge in other areas in your tank and there's really no way to completely rid you system of it without sterilizing it and no guarentee it won't get reintroduced as it's looks like a species I see fairly often.

 

[srobertb]

Probably posted. Just keeping knocking back the sponge until the zoas take better hold.

Zoas will grow over nearly anything including themselves. That sponge isn’t going to pose a problem.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Does anyone know the name of the sponge? The only issue I’m having with it right now is that it’s preventing my zoas from growing out.

This is a poriferan type ciliated sponge and will only row and take over the entire plug. Easiest removal is using a dental pick and pulling off gently and discard. Harbor freight has a pick set on sale for a dollar