Is 350+ par really necessary to keep sps? I was always under the impression 250ish would be adequate but I’m probably wrong. If I have a mixed reef and I aim to hit my sps with 350+par would my LPS start suffering from too much light? I’d love to hear those with mixed reefs chime in! Thanks
Sps and par
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Ideally, the SPS are at or near the top of the tank - located as close to directly under the lights as possible; getting the higher PAR from the closer, more direct lights. The LPS and lower-demand corals would be located at the bottom of the tank and/or off to the side of the light; getting the lower PAR levels they generally desire. Every tank is different, however - an empty box of water is possible to predict, but one with rock scape and such is much harder to gauge without an actual meter coming into play.
There is certainly a "sweet spot" for coral growth where the average coral will do best (good growth, nice coloration, etc.), but that's not to say that they won't (in time) adapt to the lighting conditions they are in; within reason. There will also generally be a trade-off at the macro level between growth rates and color intensity, but you should be able to get a balance of both with the right lighting.
There is certainly a "sweet spot" for coral growth where the average coral will do best (good growth, nice coloration, etc.), but that's not to say that they won't (in time) adapt to the lighting conditions they are in; within reason. There will also generally be a trade-off at the macro level between growth rates and color intensity, but you should be able to get a balance of both with the right lighting.
Vivid Aquatics took live PAR measurements of their 800g reef, which has thriving SPS from the sandbed to the top. The highest PAR they had was somewhere around 320 at the very top of a 28" deep tank. The sandbed was around 100 PAR.
Additionally, Dana Riddle has shown that too much par slows photosynthesis, and that the first hour of sunrise and sunset may cause more photosynthesis than the rest of the whole day combined -- Due to it's lower PAR.
So take everything with a grain of salt.
Additionally, Dana Riddle has shown that too much par slows photosynthesis, and that the first hour of sunrise and sunset may cause more photosynthesis than the rest of the whole day combined -- Due to it's lower PAR.
So take everything with a grain of salt.
It depends on the light source and the coral. Nearly all acropora will thrive with growth at up to 750 PAR under MH and T5, but will not under LED. They can do ever more with daylight spectrum like 6500k.
Color can be different than growth. I keep my dragons (CITR Red, Purple Dragon Eyes, etc.) at about 350-400 because the color is better than if under 750+, but the growth is the same. Millepora, tables, efflo all have better color with more output.
I do not keep MBP&S, so no idea about that part of the mixed reef.
LPS start to slow down at 500 PAR at my house... I would keep them under 350 if you can. Keep the LPS at the bottom and you will be OK... remember that most euphyllia are collected in waist deep water and can handle the daylight sun spectrum in massive amounts.
Softies just continue to grow. I grow jawbreaker and bounce mushrooms with the same light as the SPS since it grows them faster.
Clams, which are the best part of a mixed reef, IMO, will benefit from all the light that you can give them. I start them off under 6500K MH at 750-1000 PAR until they grow. Once acclimated, they thrive under this much light and quickly put on new shell. You cannot give them too much light.
Lastly, keep in mind that PAR meter does not capture all of the spectrum that coral need... it can vastly underestimate some light sources and without know the type of light and spectrum, meter type, sensor type and if it was in or out of the water, you can have readings that differ from each other 100%. For example, my Apogee 510 already corrects for being underwater and does a better job with blues, but it forsakes spectrum over about 660 and below about 440 on a pretty steep line... so a LED with 350 PAR will be significantly less light than a MH or T5 reading the same 350 PAR since the LED does not have any helpful far-red and not as much helpful UV and violet as the other types.
Color can be different than growth. I keep my dragons (CITR Red, Purple Dragon Eyes, etc.) at about 350-400 because the color is better than if under 750+, but the growth is the same. Millepora, tables, efflo all have better color with more output.
I do not keep MBP&S, so no idea about that part of the mixed reef.
LPS start to slow down at 500 PAR at my house... I would keep them under 350 if you can. Keep the LPS at the bottom and you will be OK... remember that most euphyllia are collected in waist deep water and can handle the daylight sun spectrum in massive amounts.
Softies just continue to grow. I grow jawbreaker and bounce mushrooms with the same light as the SPS since it grows them faster.
Clams, which are the best part of a mixed reef, IMO, will benefit from all the light that you can give them. I start them off under 6500K MH at 750-1000 PAR until they grow. Once acclimated, they thrive under this much light and quickly put on new shell. You cannot give them too much light.
Lastly, keep in mind that PAR meter does not capture all of the spectrum that coral need... it can vastly underestimate some light sources and without know the type of light and spectrum, meter type, sensor type and if it was in or out of the water, you can have readings that differ from each other 100%. For example, my Apogee 510 already corrects for being underwater and does a better job with blues, but it forsakes spectrum over about 660 and below about 440 on a pretty steep line... so a LED with 350 PAR will be significantly less light than a MH or T5 reading the same 350 PAR since the LED does not have any helpful far-red and not as much helpful UV and violet as the other types.
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Ya gotta define sps. A cyphasteria and leposeris is an sps and is low light. Some acropora are are deep water and want lower par.
Etc etc with poclipora and stylo
And yea, depending on the lps too much isn’t good either. Trying to really mix a reef well is tricky but can be done, but a per meter and understanding of DLI and bit species is needed to find the sweet spot.
A good thread and resources.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/seneye-guide-par-levels-for-coral.359101/
Etc etc with poclipora and stylo
And yea, depending on the lps too much isn’t good either. Trying to really mix a reef well is tricky but can be done, but a per meter and understanding of DLI and bit species is needed to find the sweet spot.
A good thread and resources.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/seneye-guide-par-levels-for-coral.359101/
Depending on your light source, you can easily have high light areas, and low. A point source LED will have "cones" of higher light under the pucks and much lower light elsewhere and you can place coral both horizontally and vertically for lower and higher PAR - this can work for mixed reefs where this is desired. Wide-panel LEDs, T5s and MH setups are more even (to different degrees) and you have to adjust mostly vertically, but the sides and front are sometimes lower.
DesertReefT4r
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200-300 par is considered the ideal range for most sps. Many can take a lot more if acclimated.
Robert McCreary
Active Member
so pretty much LED pucks with uv and violets built in do not produce the correct usable uv/spectrum? ;Meh
i do enjoy looking at tanks running t5ho with either mh or led combo over LED's running by itself . they are two different ball games and the LEDs are just getting to that point. give it a few more years
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I think that in a few more years, nearly nobody who wants to keep acropora will have LED alone nor even start out that way... the trend is going strong towards first adding some T5s, then when that that benefit is seen the people wonder why they don't just invest more in T5s or MH since the T5s made the difference.
Robert McCreary
Active Member
idk ive seen some really nice sps tanks using only high end led fixtures. also look at all of the people who are forced to use led lights on nano tanks and cubes! LED's are here to stay.
when i say i like looking at tanks with t5 is because it gives off a more relaxing look.
if anything led's are too strong.
when i say i like looking at tanks with t5 is because it gives off a more relaxing look.
if anything led's are too strong.
bigjgmac
Active Member
I have a mixed reef - 40 gallon bowfront. The top of the rock work is about 6” below the surface. I’m running two Kessill A160 Tuna Blues at 90% intensity for six hours with three hours ramp on either side. Max color is 40%. I rented a PAR meter from BRS. Top of the rock is getting around 350 par at full intensity with most of the tank bottom being im the 100 - 150 range. I have an acropora, a stylopora, a montipora, and a gorgonian on the top. As I go down I have some ricordea and candy canes at halfway down (ish), and some other LPS and low light spa on or near the bottom. I also have a dedicated rock that goes about 1/3 of the way up that is in the process of becoming a zoa garden. Everything seems happy and is doing well.
Cjeippert
Active Member
I hope this helps….. I have a mixed reef with 4 radion gen 5 blues everything set at 100 except overall point intensity is 27% for 9.5 hours and blue ramp down and up spectrum for remaining time to total 12 hours. Interestingly the light directly under the leds is significantly less than at the same heightBetween 2 lights. The lights come down in a cone and where the cones overlap is like 50 to 75 more PAR. Essentially the places not directly under the lights are lit by 2 lights exceeding the PAR directly under 1 led. I do have more radions than the manufacturer recommends and they are probably six to eight inches from one another.
a PAR meter is worth it for me to own( cost of 3 or 4 nice acro frags) I now know the PAR of the shaded areas under ledges which create shadows for like 30 - 70 PAR areas for chalices, star cloves, lps.
My torches, bubble, and leather are at bottom sand bed but get hit with 170 to 190. They thrive. They can adjust to higher PAR, i did it super slow over 3 months to increase light setting by 8%. My hammers I put in corners to protect mostly from flow but also light.
Stylos and birdsnest grow very well at 175 and up for my system. (Higher PAR the better tho) Acros mostly at 240 to 330PAR. The acros grow slowly with ph at 8.2 to 8.35. I am unsuccessful with higher light demanding acros like tenius and milleopora in this particular mixed reef. The just barely survive and do not grow or color up well which is to be expected since most colorful tenius are grown under 350 to 650 halide PAR. I know many can grow tenius under led, but I do not think I can turn my lights up much more without harming lps and softies
a PAR meter is worth it for me to own( cost of 3 or 4 nice acro frags) I now know the PAR of the shaded areas under ledges which create shadows for like 30 - 70 PAR areas for chalices, star cloves, lps.
My torches, bubble, and leather are at bottom sand bed but get hit with 170 to 190. They thrive. They can adjust to higher PAR, i did it super slow over 3 months to increase light setting by 8%. My hammers I put in corners to protect mostly from flow but also light.
Stylos and birdsnest grow very well at 175 and up for my system. (Higher PAR the better tho) Acros mostly at 240 to 330PAR. The acros grow slowly with ph at 8.2 to 8.35. I am unsuccessful with higher light demanding acros like tenius and milleopora in this particular mixed reef. The just barely survive and do not grow or color up well which is to be expected since most colorful tenius are grown under 350 to 650 halide PAR. I know many can grow tenius under led, but I do not think I can turn my lights up much more without harming lps and softies
peterhos
Active Member
Hi There Sorry if this is an old thread. You say that sps will thrive under MH and T5, but not under LED. I am confused and much poorer having bought an LED unit that says to run all 3 channels at 100%, and the PAR map of the unit shows 840 PAR at the surface. The logic escapes me. At the moment in a 7 month old tank zoas at the bottom are growing, a few SPS frags still have flesh but are brown. Nitrates are 12 and phosphate 0.13. Any tips as to what to do with the lights? Thanks for any help here.
Troylee
all about the diy!!!!!
What lights? What’s your flow? What sticks we talking here? Haha! got any pictures? How deep is your tank?
peterhos
Active Member
Tank is 60 cm deep. Lights sit 15 cm above water. Lights are TMC ilumenaire + 900. Their website has a PAR map. Not sure what my few frags are … forgotten their names … getting old and memory not so good! Soft (Kenya tree?) coral to the right has retained size and colour. Cherry tree to the left has retained size. Am embarrassed to attach this picture…
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Troylee
all about the diy!!!!!
Nothing to be embarrassed about! At least you’re trying to figure it out! Most of those Sps look dead and algae has taken over.. your nutrients are higher than your test are showing if you got algae the way you do.. what test kit are you using? Are you using rodi water for your water changes and top off?
peterhos
Active Member
At the moment the tank is a bright green on the rocks. Too much light?? 0.12 PO4 is with a Hanna checker. Nitrates of 12 to 13 also with Hanna. I have s small clownfish, a blue tang and an Eibli Angel fed each day with 1 or 2 cubes, alternating mysis, brine shrimp, micro plankton etc. Maybe I could reduce the feeding?? Is my problem simply nutrients? If so how can I get them down further (yes, RO water - 10% change a week - my LFS said to give up changes for a while)? A dozen snails, 2 hermits and 3 shrimp. I still do not get whether I need more or less light…. Thanks for taking the time to help out.
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