SPS not thriving in Dead Rock system vs Live Rock system .

[jda]

I got pukani rock from BRS and did an acid bath as well as the tub for 3 weeks dosing lanthanum chloride. Upon placing in the reef tank and cycling I found out that the rocks were, ans still are, loaded with phosphates, leaching into the water. Despite my Hanna tester saying that phosphates are low in the tank. First Dinos, now hair algae. Running GFO/carbon and UV on the tank. I am hoping this subsides soon. Any tips on getting phosphates out of the rock while in the reef tank? Lanthanum Chloride? NoPox? Thanks,

You have to keep using a remover to keep the in-tank water level low. The rock will then release what it can, slowly. It can take a LONG time and can hold a lot of phosphate. The rock will unbind more as the water level goes lower... and absorb more if it goes up. There is an equilibrium but the rock has a massive amount compared to the small amount in the water column.

This can also be compounded by caked organics that need to be processed by bacteria and microfauna. This can also take a long time. Once they get the organic out of there, there are now two sources of phosphate... the decaying organics and the areas of rock that are now exposed to the rest of the tank water.

I would use GFO since this is safe and gentle if used slowly.

The typical experience is that your tank water has, say .75 ppm. You put on a few cups of GFO. A day or two later, your tank water has .01. You are happy. A day after that, you are back up to .75 again as the rock just released a whole bunch more. Lather, rinse and repeat. Eventually, the numbers will come down. If this is really bad, it can take gallons of GFO.

You have to be REALLY careful not do drive your P to actual zero in the water column or you can limit algae, dinos (especially the dinos in the coral) and microfauna and kill them.

I did a test where a bit less of 1 pound of aragonite in 5g of tank water could absorb over 55 ppm of phosphate down to .05. This stuff can bind an extraordinary amount. The thread is in the chemistry section.

 

[Sallstrom]

I see a lot of ways to cure dry live rock. I know I probably will get some beating now, but why all this work?

I'm a bit lazy and since I work with aquariums time is limitation. So we've used most of our rock directly. Yes, some PO4 leaked into the aquarium water, but not more then we what we could lower quite easy. Of course we had a good crew of herbivores as well, taking care of the algae in the beginning.

/ David

 

[BigJohnny]

We have started up two large tanks at work using dry live rock. First one with rocks from Aquadeco and the other one with Marco Rocks. We regulary send in ICP tests to Triton lab and the only thing thats has come out of those rocks that's unwanted and possible to test was phosphate. And since we knew that would probably happen we were ready for it and treated the tank until we had the level of phosphate we wanted.
In the tank in my build tread we put in some Acroporas after 3 weeks and they are still alive after 4 years.
So sometimes it works fine

/ David

Do you remember how long they took to start growing at a significant rate?

 

[Sallstrom]

Do you remember how long they took to start growing at a significant rate?

They actually grew well directly from the start. I was surprised. I only wanted to see if any of the first "test corals" would survive.
But this was one tank, with 10000 litre water, with a sand pressure filter. So why it worked so well I don't know.
We did have a lot of diatoms first 2-3 month, but that feels normal IMO. And because of the diatoms we didn't need to feed the tangs the first 2 month either

/ David

 

[Luno]

I got pukani rock from BRS and did an acid bath as well as the tub for 3 weeks dosing lanthanum chloride. Upon placing in the reef tank and cycling I found out that the rocks were, ans still are, loaded with phosphates, leaching into the water. Despite my Hanna tester saying that phosphates are low in the tank. First Dinos, now hair algae. Running GFO/carbon and UV on the tank. I am hoping this subsides soon. Any tips on getting phosphates out of the rock while in the reef tank? Lanthanum Chloride? NoPox? Thanks,

If Hanna tester says low how do you know it is leaching phosphate? Like did your phosphates shoot through the roof at some point?

 

[Bpb]

Here’s a question for you folks. Say you had a tank upgrade in the fairly distant future. You had a bigger tank but may move at some point in the next year or two. And you wanted to start with all dry rock because well....that’s what you have. And a decent amount of it. Like 100 pounds or more. Would you just cure it long term to have it stable and mature when it was time to use it. Like for a year or even more? Is there any detriment to it being subjected to temperature extremes of this area? 90-100 degree summers, with a hand full of hard freezes in the winter, but averaging 40-50 degrees for 3-4 months? If kept in a garage?

 

[JaimeAdams]

Here’s a question for you folks. Say you had a tank upgrade in the fairly distant future. You had a bigger tank but may move at some point in the next year or two. And you wanted to start with all dry rock because well....that’s what you have. And a decent amount of it. Like 100 pounds or more. Would you just cure it long term to have it stable and mature when it was time to use it. Like for a year or even more? Is there any detriment to it being subjected to temperature extremes of this area? 90-100 degree summers, with a hand full of hard freezes in the winter, but averaging 40-50 degrees for 3-4 months? If kept in a garage?

There would obviously be some affects from going from 100 degrees to freezing throughout the year. Sponges would probably die multiple times. IT would probably be better than not curing, things like phosphate leaching and such would take place and I'm sure some bacteria would live, but it would not be in balance like it would on the coral reef, the most stable environment on the planet.

 

[Michael Llabona]

I've always used pukani dry rock without a problem. I typically do a bleach then acid bath. I then let the rock cure for about a month or 2. I've had gha before but that was not the rocks fault. I got my nutrients under control and it went away. I also dont add any sps until 6 months in.

 

[Luno]

I've always used pukani dry rock without a problem. I typically do a bleach then acid bath. I then let the rock cure for about a month or 2. I've had gha before but that was not the rocks fault. I got my nutrients under control and it went away. I also dont add any sps until 6 months in.

I like this, most people wanna find something to blame for why they get problem algae. Instead of going yup I made the mistake I know I did it and then you can fix it quicker when your not looking for phantom to blame like the rock

 

[Sarah24!]

When I went from a 125 to my 240, I used all my old rock and about a 100 pounds of dead as a door nail rock. The dead rock I set on the bottom as my base rock etc. then I went to live rock on top. I had no issues and my coral does great. This hobby is not really an exact science every little ocean is different. The more one tries to do this or that the more they ruin it. Leave the tank alone and just let nature take its course. Nobody has an instant reef if they did what fun would that be. Some corals are very painfully slow growing. But they do that in the ocean also thats just it’s nature. I have found the more I keep my tiny hands out of my tank the better it is.

 

[HolisticBear]

I see a lot of ways to cure dry live rock. I know I probably will get some beating now, but why all this work?

They are many different types of dry rock. Most of the extra steps are specifically for Pukani from BRS. It's often unnecessary for the other types, but causes no/little harm.

There are plenty of reports that with BRS Pukani that if no steps were taken (bleach, acid, LC, etc), and it was simply placed in saltwater, it took many months and closer to a year for all the dead material to fully decompose. A little prep work greatly reduces that time.

 

[BonsaiReef]

I believe what could also be a significant factor is to keep our hands out of the tank (one of the mystery factors maybe??). I can only imagine the list of bad things we unconsciously introduce to our tanks just by putting our hands in the water. Think of all the possibilities after touching the world all day then touching the water. I believe most reefers enjoy that intimate interaction but i also believe it comes at a cost. Sps are sensitive beasts and i think hands in water = Russian roulette. There are many other factors at play but i believe this may also be one of the significant ones that contribute negatively in a younger less established system that is "more sensitive". Its already challenged in its youth, then we unknowingly add nasty chemicals in this manor. Gloves are as necessary as live rock in my opinion.

 

[Makers Marc]

I have hit the 1 yr mark and used 100%pukani since day one in my 180g new build. And even with parameters optimal, testing daily, (geo618 carx with carbon doser) cannot keep acros alive.

Was thinking of buying like 10-20lbs only of TB live Saltwater rock (or any brand recommeneded) and putting that into my sump only. That way, any crazy pests that arise can more easily be caught than if it went straight into my display.

Any reason this cant work to add biodiversity, assuming I run lighting down in the sump too?

 

[Piranhapat]

I have hit the 1 yr mark and used 100%pukani since day one in my 180g new build. And even with parameters optimal, testing daily, (geo618 carx with carbon doser) cannot keep acros alive.

Was thinking of buying like 10-20lbs only of TB live Saltwater rock (or any brand recommeneded) and putting that into my sump only. That way, any crazy pests that arise can more easily be caught than if it went straight into my display.

Any reason this cant work to add biodiversity, assuming I run lighting down in the sump too?

Is your tank growing coralline algae. If not could be your reason. That’s a sign your sps should grow.

 

[Makers Marc]

Is your tank growing coralline algae. If not could be your reason. That’s a sign your sps should grow.

My tank is full of corraline sprouting everywhere unfortunately.

 

[Piranhapat]

My tank is full of corraline sprouting everywhere unfortunately.

What is actually happening to sps. Are you losing tissue. Are they turning brown. How fast are you losing sps? What is your Alk and nitrites.

 

[Makers Marc]

Example "before" shot of a pack I picked up from a local around the 9 month mark. "after" shot is from another batch, but symptoms always look and progress the same way.

SG = 1.024-5
Alk = 7.35 dkh (tested daily +/-0.25)
Mg = 1350 ppm
Ca = 375 ppm
No3 = 8-12
Po4 = .08-.15

Lighting - Kessil ap700x2: maxing at 45%, 14 hr cycle

ACROS - Usually peels after a few days of paling/burnt tips star showing. Not alk flux related, trust me. Ive already pinged SPS guys locally who I trust, one of then thinn light shock since coming from t5 based tank.

But are kessils mounted 12 inches off water maxing at 40% ish enough to do that?

Flow is pretty intense with 2xgyre xf250s on my apex. Not bc they just are, but because I have alot of open space in my layout.

Thoughts?

 

[Makers Marc]

Adding a full tank shot just for yall to see the aquascape/distance from LED. This is around month 8 after the first wave died.

 

[duke62]

Started my take in May 2018. Started adding corals on June 21st. Tank is doing awesome. Used dry dry I bleached myself. Added a load of bacteria, microbacter, Dr Tim’s and special blend. Had coraline growing in July. So far knock on wood no sps deaths and good growth and color

 

[Piranhapat]

I see that your phosphate are high and why the long hours of lights. Kessil are not over powering. But 14 hours is too much. Other than calcium being a little low. Bring your lights to 8 hours. Keep po4 around .02