Sps tissue dissolving overnight!

[takoarm8]

-3.5 month old tank.
-Parameters have been stable for 2 months.
-Had a Dino outbreak when parameters dropped one day.
-within hours of getting new health corals that the polyps were extending within 30 mins of Puting in tank .
-overnight had 3 large frags. Snozzberry, tsa fuzz acro and giant peach table acro completely disentigrated.

almost staghorns, montis, and Oregon torts which have been in the system for 5 weeks to 3 weeks seem to be doing ok. 1 aquamarine stag that is clustered next to two others I mounted 3 weeks ago at the same time is now showing some tissue loss.

40 gallon cube
Gen 5 xr 30 12 hour photo period on the same settings top shelf corals uses (where I got most of my frags from.


Alk- 9.8. 30 day average 9.6
Salinity 35, 1.026. 30 day average 34, 1.025
Calcium 480. 30 day average 470
Ph 8.1. 30 day average 8.3 day 7.7 night
Nitrates 12 ppm. 30 day average 14ppm
Phosphates .12 30 day average .10
Temp 77.8. 30 day average 77.8



I test all parameters daily except calcium which has been done weekly.

I added a UV sterilizer last week to help with the Dino’s and it has worked pretty well and today is the first day the Dino’s have seriously subsided. I also added pods from algae barn 48 hours ago.

I’m super flow is 2 MP10’s staggered catty corner set on reef quest at 70%

if my water parameters are this stable I don’t understand why the corals would just nose dive so fast.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hanna phos, nitrate, calcium, alk,
I have a trident but it isn’t set up yet.

I test everything but calcium every day around 3pm calcium is tested every Friday.

if I get a weird or abnormal reading I retest. The alk spikes have always been confirmed. Every once in a while a phosphate test will be wonky.

I have the Milwaukee 877 refractometer which I have been told is one of the best in the market.

Ok- your equipment list is perfect. Try a second water test as suggested to confirm your numbers although may be correct

 

[vetteguy53081]

My LFS is terrible when I asked for a water analysis they tested alkalinity and said that’s all that mattered. They are not helpful and only seem to deal with lps.

Yup - Not good advise

 

[takoarm8]

Ok- your equipment list is perfect. Try a second water test as suggested to confirm your numbers although may be correct

Have done that with the alk and it confirmed. PH is back at 8.0which is normal.

is it normal for ph to go between 7.8nightly and 8.3 right before lighting cycle drops on AB plus schedule?

 

[takoarm8]

I am also using a 7 stage BRS Rodi unit for my water

 

[vetteguy53081]

Have done that with the alk and it confirmed. PH is back at 8.0which is normal.

is it normal for ph to go between 7.8nightly and 8.3 right before lighting cycle drops on AB plus schedule?

Ph does drop at night and the variance you mention would be about right. When lights go on in the morning, the number elevate back up as the photosynthesis from micro algae & corals removes the carbon atoms from CO2 leaving Oxygen in the tank which in turn raises the pH value and the opposite applies when lights are out.

 

[takoarm8]

Ph does drop at night and the variance you mention would be about right. When lights go on in the morning, the number elevate back up as the photosynthesis from micro algae & corals removes the carbon atoms from CO2 leaving Oxygen in the tank which in turn raises the pH value and the opposite applies when lights are out.

Ok that’s good to know. Alk should be steady 24/7 though correct?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Ok that’s good to know. Alk should be steady 24/7 though correct?

Through the day as your coral consume the alk, that too will change but not drastically.

 

[FrugalReefer]

IMO and IME a tank has to be at least a year old to be able to sustain SPS Acros and not easy SPS like Montis, Stylos and Pocis.

 

[njreefkeeper]

Another alk spike overnight this time it went from 9.6-10.8 overnight.
Nitates are 6.8
Ph dove to 7.3
Phosphates .12
Calcium 480

I did another normal 5 gallon water change this time with water that was 77 degrees. My tds on my Rodi is perfect and the seawater tests exactly to tropic Marin pro specs.

I lost my tang, exquisite wrasse, and 2 sps, as well as two cleaner shrimp. Blood shrimp are fine ?

this sucks I don’t understand what caused the alk and oh swing. My ph ususally hoes down to 7.8 at night from a day time of 8.3.

super bummed and disheartened.

would this have something to do with dinos?

Too much too fast. A 3.5 month old tank with dry rock is simply not ready for SPS; especially acropora. It doesn’t matter how perfect your parameters are. I can take a clean tank, fill it with freshly mixed saltwater, add some dry rock, add nitrate to get to 10 ppm, add phosphate to get to .07, have perfect randomized flow, run the hottest lighting schedule my fancy LEDs can muster, add bottled bacteria supplements, and on and on and on. I can “create” the perfect numbers and then report back that I have:

440 calcium
8 dkh
Mg: 1380
Potassium 400
NO3: 10
PO4: .07

I can do this in a tank with no fish, without having fed a single cube, flake or pellet. I can add UV, skim, run an ab+ schedule with all the recommended par values at different depths of the tank. It won’t amount to a hill of beans.

Your alkalinty is spiking because your corals refuse to grow in this desert environment. No amount of food, fish stocking, pods, etc is going to beat maturity. So what’s maturity? It’s a tank that’s been there done that. Our tanks “learn” by going through the evolutionary process (albeit in a very accelerated timeframe compared to nature). Dinoflagellates are some of the oldest life forms on earth. As such, when the ocean’s bacterial populations stabilized, dinoflagellates were kept at bay. They’re never eliminated. They’re only contained by more advanced forms of life. That chain of events cannot be circumvented or skipped. Any intervention on our part is nothing more than a disturbance. Dinos love that. They’ll come back to haunt you when you think you’re in the clear. Dona search for “my Dino’s came back”. You’ll get the phone book. Once your bacterial beds are established (and I don’t mean by adding all the fancy bottles and additives), the dinoflagellates will lose their hold over the tank. That happens by feeding fish and having them create ammonia; more and more each month. The bacteria in their gut is valuable. It’s what they brought with them from the sea. Ammonia feeds bacteria. As bacteria find the environment suitable, they reproduce at the rate needed. A water change and siphoning is next to useless in fighting Dinos. Anyone who’s ever had them will tell you that a water change made them worse. So why? Because Dinos can feed off of trace elements in newly mixed saltwater. And when you do a water change you take away available ammonia (yea there is always some in our tanks) and give Dinos more trace elements to carry on while corals suffer and die.

The remedy (and this is the best part) doesn’t cost you anything except some fish and food. Tune your skimmer down; maybe until it’s pulling almost nothing. One of the main things found in skimmate is bacteria. At the onset of a new tank it’s a precious commodity we can’t afford to waste.

Next; no water changes. Period. As you feed fish the tank will get uglier and uglier. But, bacteria will be winning. You just can’t see it happening. Eventually, with nothing more needed on your part, Dinos will be gone one day. No fancy potions, no hydrogen peroxide, no UV. Once they’re gone, higher forms of algae move in to take their place. Diatoms, green hair algae…maybe even some Cyanobacteria. This is when you start performing water changes; no more than 10% weekly. Dino’s can come back in a new tank. Like dinoflagellates, hair algae consumes trace elements as well. That’s why people with aggressive algae turf scrubbers have to dose trace elements. Your goal is only to do enough water changes so that you can manually remove hair algae and introduce a clean up crew. Any clean up crew introduced during the dino phase most likely won’t make it, and siphoning your sand bed during Dinos makes things worse.

Next, tune the skimmer up to pull but still on the dry side. Maybe even turn the UV on. Maybe turn the light intensity up a bit. No turkey basting rocks, no sand siphoning. Bacteria is your friend. These habits are environmental disturbances. Detritus is bad (in the long run) but an asset in a new tank. It feeds bacteria and more “desirable” nuisance algae.

So how long? Yeah, we say every tank is different bug I’ve set up enough tanks for myself and clients in the last 25 years to have a good idea when dealing with dry rock. At 10 months, siphon a portion of your sand bed and add a couple hearty frags. Wait a week. Make sure no Dino’s come back. If not, siphon another portion with a 10% water change. Wait a week. Maybe even send out an ICP to see if your trace elements are depleted.

The long and skinny? It’s a year out to be comfortable in adding SPS. It just is. Some do it earlier. There are outliers in everything. Our tanks have to create the environment to process our nutrients; not just add the nutrients in a bottle to get to a number.

The tank in this picture was set up in November of 2021. Dead rock. Dead sand. Three purple tangs, one sail fin tang, one powder blue tang, 5 lyretail Anthias, 3 leopard wrasses. For the first month it was lit with only the ambient light in the room. Month two was actinic blue led strips for 8 hours. Dino’s exploded. I took the collection cup off my skimmer. I did no water changes. I fed the fish nori, pellets, flake and a chunk of LRS daily (and still do). Month 4 Dino’s were still there. So I fed more. No bottled potions. In May of 2022, Dino’s subsided. Then came the hair algae. I stopped feeding nori. Let the tangs do their job. I pulled any longer strands manually, and added the first members of my clean up crew. Algae is there (as it should be in a healthy tank) but kept at bay. I touched the sand for the first time (almost 8 months after set up) to vacuum a small portion. Then in June I turned on my halides for 4 hours a day and introduced my first hearty SPS. Coralline algae from their plugs started showing up on rocks and glass. My first ICP showed I was low on many traces. I began doing 10% water changes weekly and adding more frags. Fast forward to today. Not one frag has paled, many already coloring up and encrusting fast.

nitrate? I don’t care.
Phosphate? I don’t care.

I’m adding enough by means of food to keep all these tangs from fighting each other. In return they’re giving me precious ammonia being converted into what bacteria can consume and do their job.

The whole point? You need more time with less intervention; not more intervention and more products. Your patience will be rewarded. I know this is long winded but there’s just too many people with new tanks rushing things. You’ll get there. It’s just rough now that you have all the frags in there suffering. I’ve been doing this for 25 years. The nicest colored SPS corals always come from mature systems; not bottles and gear. I feel my tank is still new and only now starting to hit its stride.