Stabilizing Alkalinity & Calcium Levels - Help!

samba_dad · Jan 7, 2016

I just received my Triton test results for my tank. I am surprised by a number of entries. I use Coral Pro Salt from Red Sea along with their Reef Foundation A, B, C. The Reef Foundation A combines Ca & Sr. So, it makes sense that since my Ca is high, then my Sr would be high as well. I have no idea why I have Sn or Ba so high? I also don't understand why Li, Mo or I is high.It says I should do 4X 15% WC with Pure or a recommended salt. Is Coral Pro Salt a recommended salt? @Randy Holmes-Farley

huskerreefatl · Jan 7, 2016

samba_dad said:
Another update on my measurements. I seem to have locked in on my alkalinity - yay! I used @Randy Holmes-Farley recommendation and used a 2nd titrant for my Ca test and I am measuring 645ppm in my DT. It has probably been that high since I started this process 1 week ago. Also, I am growing concerned about my NO3 getting too high. I have my protein skimmer running for 12 hrs/day currently. I may go back to 24hrs/day operation.

Questions
1) Should I do anything about my excessive Ca level or just let it drop to normal levels in about 10 days?
2) If protein skimmer does not stabilize nitrate to 4ppm, should I start dosing NoPox? I had dosed vinegar in the past but stopped because my nitrate was a zero.

As always, thanks for the advice!

There is another thread on here that would say that your nitrate levels are perfect. Look at the SPS looking pale thread.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jan 8, 2016

Tons of people have elevated lithium, and at your level, I don't consider it any problem.

Tin might come from PVC pipes or metal sources like hose clamps. It may be a concern, but it may just come back after water changes.

I would not do anything about iodine. Do you feed nori sheets? Thos ehave substantial iodine.

I've heard barium attributed to a specific brand of GFO, but I've not seen any evidence myself.

samba_dad · Jan 8, 2016

Thanks Randy! I am worried about Tin. I do use substantial PVC in my set up for automated water changes. I use two little fishy's GFO in my set up. Is that the brand of that causes the barium issue? Also, what brand of salt would be sufficient to take care of this problem. I am using Red Sea coral pro salt. Is that sufficient? The Triton Pure would cost $200 for 4x 15% water changes. Looking for a more affordable solution. Once I identify a reasonable salt, I will do the water changes and repeat the Triton test to see if I have fixed the Tin and hopefully other problems.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jan 8, 2016

samba_dad said:
Thanks Randy! I am worried about Tin. I do use substantial PVC in my set up for automated water changes. I use two little fishy's GFO in my set up. Is that the brand of that causes the barium issue? Also, what brand of salt would be sufficient to take care of this problem. I am using Red Sea coral pro salt. Is that sufficient? The Triton Pure would cost $200 for 4x 15% water changes. Looking for a more affordable solution. Once I identify a reasonable salt, I will do the water changes and repeat the Triton test to see if I have fixed the Tin and hopefully other problems.

I do not know the brand of GFO, but my supposition is that it was a European thing as elevated barium seems rare in the US. It was apparently commented on by Ehsan of Triton in a talk.

Most any salt should be suitable for lowering tin and barium.

samba_dad · Jan 10, 2016

I wanted to provide a quick update on my water chemistry. It hasn't gone as well as I had hoped. I was able to keep the alkalinity up close to 9 dKH for almost 2 weeks. Unfortunately, it dropped to about 7.5 dKH near the end of the 2 weeks pretty suddenly and I am only slowly able to bring it back up to around 8 dKH now. I am at a loss as to why it dropped so suddenly when I though I was getting close to stability.

Alkalinity Dosing
My measurements and dosage of Red Sea Reef Foundation B is shown below. I am trying not to overreact and bring up my alkalinity too quickly - a frequency mistake in the past. Is there a good rule of thumb on how much to increase the Alk dosage in mL to raise the Alk? I have been roughly increasing the dosage at 2mL every 2 days. Is that about right or should I do more/less?

Nitrate (ppm) & Phosphate (ppm)
At the same time I was trying to get my alkalinity stable, I was also trying to get my NO3 up to 2ppm and PO4 up to 0.04ppm. I have a Red Sea test kit and have just about concluded that I cannot tell the difference between 0, 0.02 or 0.04ppm. I think I am going to have to switch PO4 measurements to Hannah test kits. Anyway, back to the point, my NO3 was climbing about 5ppm and I started dosing NO3PO4-x from Red Sea on 30 Dec. I started at 2mL/25gal and my NO3 dropped from 5ppm to 2ppm in 2 days - so I halved the dosage. At this point, I had to go on a business trip and did not get to measurement my parameters until today. When I tested today, I read absolute 0ppm NO3 and 0ppm PO4 - argh! I have shut off the NO3PO4-x and my skimmer and have fed 3x today. Here are my NO3 & PO4 measurements over the same period.

Calcium Measurement
As you might recall, my Calcium went sky high when I started dosing it in equal parts with the Alkalinity. I have simply quit dosing Calcium and have been patiently waiting for it to get back to reasonable levels. Below is the progress that I have been making.

Triton Error Correction
I received my Triton tests this past Friday. I had high levels of Tin (red on Triton results). Based upon Randy's advice, I have performed a 15% WC this past Saturday with my Red Sea Coral Pro Salt. I am going to do a 15% change weekly until I have completed 4 water changes. At this point, I will send another Triton test in to see if I have resolved the Tin issue.

Coral Progress
Well the corals are not doing quite as well as I have been hoping. However, I hardly have a stable system at this point. I did notice for the nearly 2 weeks when the Alkalinty was mostly stable at 9ppm and I had measureable NO3 and PO4 the Monti Setosa colored up substantially and so did my Psammacora. I am convinced I will have good results if I can just get my critical 4 parameters stable - Alk, Cal, NO3 & PO4. My struggles continue.

Questions
1) Is it just a coincidence the NO3PO4-x addition caused a substantial Alk drop?
2) Is the calcium drop due to the Alk drop or is this also attributed to NO3PO4-x dosing?
3) Since I have stopped my NO3PO4-x dosing, how long until I can expect my NO3 & PO4 to start climbing?

samba_dad · Jan 23, 2016

The story continues. I think I am getting better control of Alkalinity and Calcium. I have had some jumps that I did not anticipate (testing error?), but have been able to recover from them pretty quickly. Considering the kind of swings I was having, this is a big improvement. My calcium continues to drop from the very high 650 before Christmas to 515 ppm measured this morning. I basically just take the measurement a couple times a week and correct incrementally instead of massively (e.g. changing alkalinity dosing from 48ml/day up to 60ml/day). I am very happy with this improvement.

@Randy Holmes-Farley
The one problem that still remains is my phosphate. I can't seem to budge off of 0ppm according to the Hannah LR Phosphate checker and Red Sea Pro Test Kit. I have turned off my GFO completely. I am running Chemi-Pure (not blue or elite just the basic Chemi-Pure). I have shut off my protein skimmer to try to get my nitrate and phosphate up. I have been feeding excessively to include the addition of some flake food that has significant phosphorus in it. I can't figure out why I cannot get measurable phosphate even though my nitrate is up to 5ppm. I am thinking about dosing some phosphate with NeoPhos to see if I can get the PO4 levels up. Could this potentially fix my problem? I have a nitrate/phosphate chart below. Please help!

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jan 23, 2016

I expect the Neophos or other phosphate additives will be able to bring up phosphate, and is a fine thing to experiment with, but when you say solve your problem, is low phosphete the problem you mean, or something else?

samba_dad · Jan 23, 2016

I meant the near 0 phosphate is the problem. I think I can get my Ca & Alk under control as well as my NO3. It is the PO4 that I seem to have no ability to influence. I am trying to "dirty up" my water to get my SPS happier. PO4 seems to be the last problem area for me. Many thanks Randy! @Randy Holmes-Farley

samba_dad · Jan 23, 2016

Also what other phosphate additives should I consider? @Randy Holmes-Farley

WindeyD · Jan 23, 2016

I see you're using BRS dosers; did you calibrate them prior to use?

samba_dad · Jan 23, 2016

No I did not. Do I need to?

WindeyD · Jan 23, 2016

samba_dad said:
No I did not. Do I need to?

Absolutely; mine dose 1.9 and 2.1 ml per minute, not the 1.1 advertised. Multiple threads with others finding similar things. The instructions advise calibration in order to assure an accurate dose.

samba_dad · Jan 23, 2016

Can you post a link to the instructions? I can't find it on their website.

WindeyD · Jan 23, 2016

samba_dad said:
Can you post a link to the instructions? I can't find it on their website.

samba_dad · Jan 23, 2016

Thank you @WindeyD

biom · Jan 24, 2016

I think you are overreacting and trying to fix many issues in the same time, this leading to mistakes as you witness and could be dangerous. Just prioritize and follow "one at the time" rule.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jan 24, 2016

samba_dad said:
Also what other phosphate additives should I consider? @Randy Holmes-Farley

Other possible sources include Seachem Neutral Regulator and simple trisodium phosphate from a hardware store, although I cannot guarantee the purity of the latter.

You can also find food grade trisodium phosphate from many online places:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/222595...RR9DCt3QPq203GyW1WiBAzdBMyxMXvJ-kTBoCVoTw_wcB

samba_dad · Feb 9, 2016

I have made a few changes since 23 Jan. I am making progress locking in my Alkalinity at 9dKH. I have started dosing NeoPhos to obtain measurable (Hannah Phosphate Colorimeter) quantities of Phosphate - this morning 0.04ppm. My Cal had dropped to 440ppm from my high of 645ppm back on 21 Dec because I have not dosed Ca in over a month. I have also calibrated (well at least measured) my dosing pumps to correct the amount of time I have them dosing to my desired amounts.

I have to question the Red Sea Ca/Sr supplement as being a balanced product with their Alk supplement. Whenever I dose the Ca/Sr supplement, my Ca readings skyrocket in 1 day. Yesterday, I started dosing Ca in balanced amounts with my Alk buffer from Red Sea. My Alk stayed around expected levels (9dKH) but my Ca shot up by 55ppm in 1 day!! Argh! I have double-checked the mixing instructions to make sure I followed them correctly - 1kg in 1.8L. I have mixed it correctly. However, in my experience, it simply can't be added in equal proportions to their Alk buffer. Any ideas? Should I try to dial in Ca independent of the Alk? @Randy Holmes-Farley