Stalled cycle following snail death

[lsween89]

Our tank was newly cycled and we were moving towards adding our first fish however one of our cerith snails (which was massive and presumably quite old) died in the tank. We found the shell which has been picked at by the hermits but the damage was done. We immediately did a water changed rinsed the sponges. Added our Nt labs Optamus and Satus and put the Venturi on our fluval filter. All other inhabitants ( invertebrates) doing well and active.
The issue we are having is the amonia. It is sticking at 0.5
We have added Microbe- Lift Special blend and Nite Out II went in yesterday.
Nitrites 0
Nitrates minimal

All the parameters have stayed the same for a few days now and we don’t seem to be getting anywhere. We are using NT labs testing kits.

 

[Tahoe61]

How new is the tank specifically?
As evidenced by the nitrite and nitrate values the cycle is not stalled it just taking some time to catch up.
At this point I would stop adding products and let the system make the self correction.
When you rinse mechanical filtration mediums you disrupt the development of the biological filter.
Try and be more patient, I know it's frustrating.

 

[lsween89]

That’s really helpful thanks. As long as I know I’m not doing something wrong I’m happy to wait. The tank is just over 2 months old. Using bottled bacteria etc to cycle quickly but have still ben waiting it out to give it more time before adding anything other than inverts

 

[ScottJ]

Don't forget to feed your inverts till there is enough for them to eat naturally in the tank. Stuff like algae and left over fish food, etc.

Also, API tests will show some ammonia even though it's safe. Search
'API ammonia' here fore a bunch of info.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Stop adding bottled bacteria. In fact stop dumping any of that crap in. Stop rinsing sponges. Let the bacteria do their thing.

If any of those bottles (I have no idea what they are, looking them up) are mostly heterotrophs they are actually slowing things down at this point.

You have a nitrogen cycle, you had a large snail die and decompose in a small system. Just give it a day or two at this point in a new tank.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Nt labs Optamus - pure snake oil. There is no reef safe product that can "detoxify" ammonia at any meaningful level. I would not purchase another bottle of this stuff, for any reason. It does nothing but drain your wallet.

Stratus = bottled bacteria, including heterotrophs. Fine to dump in once, stop dumping it in now. The heterotrophs can outcompete the nitrifierts for nutrients. They bloom, then die and ammonia processing stalls until they nitrifiers can catch up. You panic, dump in more hetertrophs and repeat the process. Stop buying this product, it no longer serves a purpose.

Microbe-Lift Special Blend - likely more heterotrophs. Stop dumping this in. It is not helping at this point. See above. Likewise, once a system is established products like this are just draining your wallet. Break down sludge? Huh? Your system will mature and be full of beneficial bacteria. Dumping more in arguably serves no purpose. The system will support what it can on its own.

Nite Out II - they claim it is nitrifiers. If that is the case, they won't hurt. But again, you already have these established. Their population level expands and contracts based on available nutrients. Dumping more in is not accomplishing anything once the system is cycled. Another product to stop buying.

Just give the system a few days to recover. You dumped a lot of stuff in there that is going to have to find microbial balance.

 

[landlubber]

Welcome to the hobby!
New tanks start in a volatile place while your tank is adjusting to establish it's denitrifying bacteria. Due to that (and even in an established system) it's good practice to never rinse media and do a water change in the same swing as along with detritus you're also washing away those bacteria colonies and the tank is left unable to cope with nutrients.
At this stage in the game, If another snail should pass it's best to just remove it and let the tank sort out the rest.

 

[Fish Fan]

As mentioned above, if you're using the API brand ammonia test kit, it often shows a low level of ammonia even when other factors would indicated that the concentration is lower, such as the age of the tank. At two months in, you should be cycled. Double check the ammonia with a different test kit, or bring a sample to your local fish store and ask them to test it, assuming they don't also use the API kit

Good luck!

 

[lsween89]

Thanks everyone. Just to clarify with regards to cleaning the sponges it was just a dunk in old tank water due to having a bacterial bloom the week before.
I had phoned my LFS when the bacterial bloom had happened and they had recommended adding the Satus and Optamus but I will stop with everything now! I was hopeful to get my clownfish in on Monday but looks like that won’t be happening!

 

[lsween89]

As mentioned above, if you're using the API brand ammonia test kit, it often shows a low level of ammonia even when other factors would indicated that the concentration is lower, such as the age of the tank. At two months in, you should be cycled. Double check the ammonia with a different test kit, or bring a sample to your local fish store and ask them to test it, assuming they don't also use the API kit

Good luck!

Is NT labs marine test kit and API kit? Excuse my ignorance! Thanks I’ll maybe take some round and see what it tests at there.

 

[lsween89]

Welcome to the hobby!
New tanks start in a volatile place while your tank is adjusting to establish it's denitrifying bacteria. Due to that (and even in an established system) it's good practice to never rinse media and do a water change in the same swing as along with detritus you're also washing away those bacteria colonies and the tank is left unable to cope with nutrients.
At this stage in the game, If another snail should pass it's best to just remove it and let the tank sort out the rest.

Ok great! Good to know because I had two of those very large ceriths so don’t know how long the other one has to go

 

[Fish Fan]

Is NT labs marine test kit and API kit? Excuse my ignorance! Thanks I’ll maybe take some round and see what it tests at there.

Nope, sorry I assumed you had the API brand test kit. The NT Labs kits are a different brand, and I don't have a lot of experience with them (I've used their freshwater kits, not their saltwater kits).

 

[lsween89]

Nt labs Optamus - pure snake oil. There is no reef safe product that can "detoxify" ammonia at any meaningful level. I would not purchase another bottle of this stuff, for any reason. It does nothing but drain your wallet.

Stratus = bottled bacteria, including heterotrophs. Fine to dump in once, stop dumping it in now. The heterotrophs can outcompete the nitrifierts for nutrients. They bloom, then die and ammonia processing stalls until they nitrifiers can catch up. You panic, dump in more hetertrophs and repeat the process. Stop buying this product, it no longer serves a purpose.

Microbe-Lift Special Blend - likely more heterotrophs. Stop dumping this in. It is not helping at this point. See above. Likewise, once a system is established products like this are just draining your wallet. Break down sludge? Huh? Your system will mature and be full of beneficial bacteria. Dumping more in arguably serves no purpose. The system will support what it can on its own.

Nite Out II - they claim it is nitrifiers. If that is the case, they won't hurt. But again, you already have these established. Their population level expands and contracts based on available nutrients. Dumping more in is not accomplishing anything once the system is cycled. Another product to stop buying.

Just give the system a few days to recover. You dumped a lot of stuff in there that is going to have to find microbial balance.

Thank you for all the advice! After my LFS had told me to use them for the bacterial bloom I then checked on google (I know I know terrible idea to trust AI!) and it recommended adding the other stuff and I just panicked as had never seen my amonia that high! I will leave it be now!

 

[lsween89]

Don't forget to feed your inverts till there is enough for them to eat naturally in the tank. Stuff like algae and left over fish food, etc.

Also, API tests will show some ammonia even though it's safe. Search
'API ammonia' here fore a bunch of info.

Hi! Thanks. I was under the impression I should avoid feeding while the amonia is high but I should still add some of my algae wafers then for the inverts?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Thanks everyone. Just to clarify with regards to cleaning the sponges it was just a dunk in old tank water due to having a bacterial bloom the week before.
I had phoned my LFS when the bacterial bloom had happened and they had recommended adding the Satus and Optamus but I will stop with everything now! I was hopeful to get my clownfish in on Monday but looks like that won’t be happening!

It is a new tank, the more you fiddle with it and the more you add, the longer it will take to find a natural microbial balance.

LFS advice can vary from amazing to amazingly bad. Remember, their primary goal is to sell products and they give advice based on what they sell. Ammonia detoxifiers are pure snake oil. For a new tank? You need water and salt. You don’t, and won’t need bottles of anything other than Alk, Calcium and Magnesium once you start adding LPS or SPS coral.

 

[lsween89]

Another question on this while we are here. Should I do another water change to dilute the amonia a bit and raise the ph as sitting between 7.8-8 or just leave it be for a few days and see how things go?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Relax, don’t panic and don’t make rash decisions. Like the LFS, beware of advice here when it comes to pouring anything in other than Alk, Ca, Mg. There are valid reasons to dose other things down the road, but not on your radar now.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Another question on this while we are here. Should I do another water change to dilute the amonia a bit and raise the ph as sitting between 7.8-8 or just leave it be for a few days and see how things go?

No, just let it be. Also, stop testing pH. Unless you house a pack of dogs in the fishroom or discharge a Co2 fire extinguisher in there, your pH will be in a reasonable range naturally.

 

[lsween89]

Another question on this while we are here. Should I do another water change to dilute the amonia a bit and raise the ph as sitting between 7.8-8 or just leave it be for a few days and see how things go?

No, just let it be. Also, stop testing pH. Unless you house a pack of dogs in the fishroom or discharge a Co2 fire extinguisher in there, your pH will be in a reasonable range naturally.

Thank you! With regards to the snails and hermits in there (still appear to be doing well) my tank is still fairly clear but AI had said not to feed just now with the amonia up. Can I pop in a couple of algae wafers for them or literally nothing? Thanks again for getting me out of my panic

 

[BeanAnimal]

Next piece of advice:don’t use AI to learn reefing.

A bit of food will not hurt, and if in fact you are stalled due to a heterotrophic bloom, a bit of food may get things moving.

That said, hermits are not going to die in a day. That they are still alive tells me free ammonia is not likely as high as the test indicates.

Is there any visible algae in the tank? They will eat that as well.