Starfish keep dying!

[bubbleguppi]

About 2 weeks ago, I had one of my orange Linkia starfish pass away. I noticed he was in the same spot for a couple of days in the sand, and he was moving slower than he usually does. Once I came back from the weekend, I saw that he had melted away, with lots of cyano over his body, and I immediately took him out of the DT.
Ever since I saw the decline in the first starfish, I kept an eye on the two I have left. I noticed they were a little slower than usual as well, so I even tried to start spot feeding them with mysis and chopped shrimp. Only one of them showed interest in the chopped shrimp, and that was maybe for about a minute before they both crawled away from it and my snails ended up eating every last piece.

This Monday, I came in and ANOTHER one of my Linkias was on the sand, completely upside down and barely moving. As of today, I believe he may have passed or be very close to the end. I have stable tank parameters, and the tank is over 3 years old, so I know it has nothing to do with water quality. I genuinely think this happened due to starvation. I've had them for almost a year, and they are so hardy and have so much personality they never had any health issues until now.

I know stars aren't easy to keep in captivity, but after experiencing this, I've done a lot of research to see how I can give them a long happy life instead of accepting the fact that they will die off sooner or later, like most people.
I would like to know if anyone else has done any type of research into the diet of starfish and how to keep them from starving. I read a lot about adding a drop of Amino Acid Concentrate (for corals) to a piece of food and spot feeding that, as it can act as a feeding trigger and allow the starfish to eat while also providing supplements from the AA.
If you have done this, what was the process like, and what amino acid concentration did you use? I would love to find a way to provide a happy, healthy life for stars living in our display tanks. If anyone has any information to share, I would love to discuss this. I have one star left, and if I can save it that would be amazing!

As for the star that's currently passing, I would love to pull him out of the tank so he doesn't cause a spike. I'm not sure if he's completely dead yet he is still upside down :(
Would you recommend leaving him in there another day, or is there a humane way to euthanize and preserve him?

 

[Fish Fan]

Sadly, though they are commonly sold, these stars don't tend to do well in most home aquaria. The are specialized feeders that really need a very large and mature sand bed or they quickly deplete their food source and slowly starve. I would suggest bringing the two remaining stars back to the fish store if possible.

Here's a coule threads that may help:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/red-linckia-starfish.970754/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/can-anyone-actually-keep-a-linckia-starfish-alive.870571/

Good luck!

 

[Euphylliaphyle]

I'm in a similar situation with my ill-advised purchase of a Fromia star. Sadly, neither can find sufficient food in the majority of home aquaria, and successful supplemental feeding is nearly impossible because no one really knows what they eat.
Should it come to this, accepted euthanasia practice: MgCl2.6H2O, followed by freezing. Read more about concentrations and method here:
https://www.avma.org/sites/default/files/2020-02/Guidelines-on-Euthanasia-2020.pdf
(Page 89 applies)

 

[Fish Fan]

I'm in a similar situation with my ill-advised purchase of a Fromia star. Sadly, neither can find sufficient food in the majority of home aquaria, and successful supplemental feeding is nearly impossible because no one really knows what they eat.
Should it come to this, accepted euthanasia practice: MgCl2.6H2O, followed by freezing. Read more about concentrations and method here:
https://www.avma.org/sites/default/files/2020-02/Guidelines-on-Euthanasia-2020.pdf
(Page 89 applies)

Interesting, I was not aware of using Magnesium Chloride like this, I know people use clove oil to euthanize fish. But why the freezing? Shouldn't the animal be humanely past on first? My understanding is that freezing to death seems quite peaceful from the outside looking in, but it's not at all a pleasant way to go. Not that I have first hand knowledge, of course

 

[bubbleguppi]

Sadly, though they are commonly sold, these stars don't tend to do well in most home aquaria. The are specialized feeders that really need a very large and mature sand bed or they quickly deplete their food source and slowly starve. I would suggest bringing the two remaining stars back to the fish store if possible.

Here's a coule threads that may help:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/red-linckia-starfish.970754/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/can-anyone-actually-keep-a-linckia-starfish-alive.870571/

Good luck!

Tysm for the thread links fish fan!
Yes, I know how hard it is to keep them alive in captivity, and bringing them back is unfortunately not an option. I have had them for a year now. The sand bed is also very large and mature, the tank is very old and I have only started having issues with the stars recently.
I have seen lots of threads on R2R about people spot feeding their Linkias or using the AA method, and it has resulted in stronger, healthier, and longer living starfish.

I was hoping to find a solution, or at least try one for the 1 starfish I have left. As for the dying one, I want to remove him from the tank I'm certain he's dead. I just don't want to take him out and he's even a little bit alive. If anyone knows of a humane way to euthanize and preserve it, I would really appreciate the information.

 

[Fish Fan]

If anyone knows of a humane way to euthanize and preserve it, I would really appreciate the information.

I know, it's too bad because they are such great looking stars, but rarely do well for anyone over time.

If you think you need to take humane action, see Euphiliaphyle's post above, or I know people use clove oil to euthanize fish.

 

[Fish Fan]

Here's Jay Hemdal's article on fish euthanasia, I'm not sure if these methods apply to other animals, but maybe it will be of some help:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-euthanasia.979258/

 

[Euphylliaphyle]

Interesting, I was not aware of using Magnesium Chloride like this, I know people use clove oil to euthanize fish. But why the freezing? Shouldn't the animal be humanely past on first? My understanding is that freezing to death seems quite peaceful from the outside looking in, but it's not at all a pleasant way to go. Not that I have first hand knowledge, of course

I don't know. Maybe it is at some concentration. The linked doc probably tells how.

 

[Euphylliaphyle]

Here's Jay Hemdal's article on fish euthanasia, I'm not sure if these methods apply to other animals, but maybe it will be of some help:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-euthanasia.979258/

Fish are different than echinoderms. I think I got "my" link from one of Jay's articles or posts.

 

[Privateye]

Interesting, I was not aware of using Magnesium Chloride like this, I know people use clove oil to euthanize fish. But why the freezing? Shouldn't the animal be humanely past on first? My understanding is that freezing to death seems quite peaceful from the outside looking in, but it's not at all a pleasant way to go. Not that I have first hand knowledge, of course

Magnesium chloride is an excellent anesthetic for many inverts, but it won't work on fish. The freezing is to ensure it dies instead of just being anesthetized for a bit.

So with a fish, you'd often use clove oil, MS-222, CO2, etc, and then put it in the freezer to make sure the job is done and they won't wake back up.

 

[bubbleguppi]

Interesting, I was not aware of using Magnesium Chloride like this, I know people use clove oil to euthanize fish. But why the freezing? Shouldn't the animal be humanely past on first? My understanding is that freezing to death seems quite peaceful from the outside looking in, but it's not at all a pleasant way to go. Not that I have first hand knowledge, of course

I found out about the magnesium chloride method today, and I was quite surprised as well. As for freezing, that is all I could find people talking about, but I couldn't find any details on the process exactly. I saw an article saying that it isn't as humane as we think because the insides of the starfish start freezing and forming ice crystals before the body can actually shut down and pass away. That's what made me seek out more advice on starfish euthanasia its very interesting.

 

[Euphylliaphyle]

So with a fish, you'd often use clove oil, MS-222, CO2, etc, and then put it in the freezer to make sure the job is done

MS-222 is the preferred and often one-step solution. The problem is availability to home aquarists.

 

[bubbleguppi]

I'm in a similar situation with my ill-advised purchase of a Fromia star. Sadly, neither can find sufficient food in the majority of home aquaria, and successful supplemental feeding is nearly impossible because no one really knows what they eat.
Should it come to this, accepted euthanasia practice: MgCl2.6H2O, followed by freezing. Read more about concentrations and method here:
https://www.avma.org/sites/default/files/2020-02/Guidelines-on-Euthanasia-2020.pdf
(Page 89 applies)

thanks so much! I see alot of people recommending the freezing method wasn't too sure about it at first.

 

[Fish Fan]

thanks so much! I see alot of people recommending the freezing method wasn't too sure about it at first.

I disagree with freezing as the main method of euthanasia. This is from Jay's article I linked above:

"Freezing
Placing the affected fish in a small amount of aquarium water in a sealed container and then placing the container in a freezer is a euthanasia technique used by some people. However, it is slow to work, so it is not considered humane. Its appeal as a method is that the fish is “out of sight” so people feel more detached from the process."

That's why I was questioning the use of freezing in conjunction with some of these other methods, but hopefully the poor fish is well gone chemically before being frozen.

 

[Privateye]

MS-222 is the preferred and often one-step solution. The problem is availability to home aquarists.

I think it's more of a price barrier, at least in the US. You can just buy it online:

https://pentairaes.com/syncaine-topical-anesthetics-ms-222

I keep some on hand just in case.

 

[bubbleguppi]

I am not one to give up so If this thread comes across someone that has tried different methods to keep their starfish alive or fed well I would love to hear what you did and how it ended up good or bad

I am also very interested in hearing from people that have tried the Amino Acid method, I have seen so many threads here but they are outdated so I hope this finds its way to someone that has!

 

[bubbleguppi]

I disagree with freezing as the main method of euthanasia. This is from Jay's article I linked above:

"Freezing
Placing the affected fish in a small amount of aquarium water in a sealed container and then placing the container in a freezer is a euthanasia technique used by some people. However, it is slow to work, so it is not considered humane. Its appeal as a method is that the fish is “out of sight” so people feel more detached from the process."

That's why I was questioning the use of freezing in conjunction with some of these other methods, but hopefully the poor fish is well gone chemically before being frozen.

I read this and im very iffy about the freezing method too but people are arguing that it's not the same with echinoderms as it is fish so freezing should be okay.

 

[bubbleguppi]

I feel soooo bad!! My poor baby he's already starving to death I don't want to give him a slow cold death too.
If I can't find a solution to give my last star a better life Im going to have to go through this grieving process all over again.