Started dosing Sodium Nitrate...then the stuff hit the fan :(

[jschottenfeld]

My SPS dominant tank was doing great, I would rate it an 8 out of 10 with regards to my hapiness with color and polyp extension. In my need to tweak (mistake, should've left good enough alone) to increase coloration I thought it would be a good idea to raise nitrates from 0 (where they have been for 10+ years) to 5. After reviewing these forums I decided to follow @Randy Holmes-Farley guidence and dose Sodium Nitrate.

I purchased lab grade soidum nitrate and mixed in the following calculation:

At first I was dosing into my sump 10ml /day for 3 days and there was no change in the tank's nitrates. Increased dosing to 20ml/day for 3 days and tank nitrates went to 1ppm. I continued dosing 20ml/day for another 5 days and tank nitrates were at 5ppm. Bingo!
Once I hit 5ppm I reduced dosing back to 10ml/day.

Problems started happening a day or two later. The tips of my sps started to recede and tissue started peeling back on other corals. Some corals lost their color. I immediately stopped dosing. Tested nitrates at 7ppm. Also tested alk at 12dkh which was very high compared to my normal 8.7dkh

Performed a few 10% water changes over the next couple of days.

It's now about 6 weeks later and half of the corals in my tank have died. Most remaining sps's have tissue damage and I snipped them back to cut off the dead portions.

At this point I am back to 8.5-9dkh and nitrates are back to 0 and the corals that have survived are recovering and getting some of their color back.

What happened? I was testing my nitrates daily throughout the entire dosing process and they never went higher than 7ppm.
Could it have been a shock to my tank since it's been at close to 0ppm nitrates for so many years? Could the sodium nitrate have caused a raise in my alk?

 

[Nick Steele]

Following!

 

[TheFishBag]

I think it was more of an alk spike than nitrates raising to 7. what are your other parameters like phosphate also

 

[TheFishBag]

ive dosed loudwolfs sodium nitrate and no ill effects. i can only attest to their proudct.

 

[jschottenfeld]

ive dosed loudwolfs sodium nitrate and no ill effects. i can only attest to their proudct.

That was the brand that I used too.

 

[jschottenfeld]

I think it was more of an alk spike than nitrates raising to 7. what are your other parameters like phosphate also

At the time they were:
Spec Grav: 1.025
Alk: 12
Calc: 460
Mg: 1500
Phos: undetected (I run a big ball of cheato in my refugium)

 

[Jon_W79]

I think that dosing nitrate caused a algae/bacteria growth spurt that dropped phosphate(and maybe ammonia) availability to corals too much, and it probably caused an alk spike.

 

[Dennis Cartier]

I would guess that your corals were acclimated to very low nitrate and the rapid rise in nitrate shocked them. I have similar issues with phosphates, though in the other direction, lowering phosphates in a tank acclimated to having them high can anger the corals.

Your desire to add a bit of nitrate is not bad, but I would suggest doing it gradually if your tank has been running at low levels for long periods of time.

The fact that you were able to run at undetectable nitrates and not be plagued with cyano shows that your tank was very balanced at those low levels.

Dennis

 

[Gtinnel]

It should only account for a small alkalinity increase but as more nitrates get consumed by the tank it does raise alkalinity. There is a relationship between the two, as nitrate gets produced (not dosed) it lowers alk and as nitrates get consumed it raises alk. On a tank that only consumes nitrates that get produced in the tank it balances out. If it's being dosed you don't get the negative from the nitrate being produced and only the alk raising from nitrate being consumed.

It shouldn't have been anywhere near enough to see the increase you saw though. 50ppm of nitrate inversly changes dKH by 2.3.

 

[131696]

Here is what happened to me ,when you feed fish you put in nutrients filter system takes nutrients out to 0 but in them few hrs the corals are eating let's say before they reach 0 again ,when you started dosing the filter system couldn't take out all the nutrients so back in tank they went and corals got upset you didn't bring them down to 0 they stayed up and they not used of that then when you stop dosing they went back to 0 stressing corals out more killing some .if tank looks good leave it alone. 0 nutrients yes after hours after you feed is fine it supposed to be that way some people have nutrients in tank for 10-11 hrs till filter system takes them out to 0 but in that time the corals are feeding for them 10-11 hrs till,they reach 0 again.then next day you feed again a routine, what you did was messed up the routine of the animals..

 

[taricha]

Since you added NO3 while PO4 was undetectable, this can create a stress on corals.

"We argue, however, that the direct negative effects on the symbiosis are not necessarily caused by the nutrient enrichment itself but by the phosphorus starvation of the algal symbionts that can be caused by skewed nitrogen (N) to phosphorus (P) ratios. We exposed corals to imbalanced N/P ratios in long-term experiments and found that the undersupply of phosphate severely disturbed the symbiosis, indicated by the loss of coral biomass, malfunctioning of algal photosynthesis and bleaching of the corals. In contrast, the corals tolerated an undersupply with nitrogen at high phosphate concentrations without negative effects on symbiont photosynthesis, suggesting a better adaptation to nitrogen limitation."
-Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What exact product did you dose?

I agree that if phosphate went to low, that could be a substantial problem.

 

[jschottenfeld]

@Jon_W79
Even though I was reading this forum for many weeks before dosing, I'm quickly realizing I jumped in a pool that was deeper than I thought!

@Dennis Cartier
I was unaware of the delicate correlation between nitrates and phosphates. Maybe it's best for me to just leave my tank at 0 nitrates as it's been. Quickly realizing that adjusting to 5 or 7ppm over a week and a half was too rapid.

@125
Your explanation is very interesting and makes sense. Maybe my best method going foward to increase coloration and polyp extension would be to increase the number of feedings throughout the day. This way I'm not dumping a whole bunch of nutrients into the tank at once, but having more prolonged periods of manageable nutrients in the tank throughout the day. From day one I've always had an overkill filtration system based on the size of my tank. (I guess most of us operate our tanks in this manner as well, to want the best for our creatures).

@taricha
Would you suggest dosing phosphates in addition to nitrates in order to remain in balance?

@Randy Holmes-Farley
I dosed Loudwolf Sodium Nitrate, which to my understanding was a quality brand in the community.
How do you feel I should go about raising my phosphate level (or nitrates for that matter)? I've always maintained a tumbling ball of cheato in my fuge, which I've felt has been very beneficial in nutrient export and overall health of my sps corals. I have to believe this is a major mechanism in the export of my phosphates.
Do you feel that more frequent feedings and putting my skimmer on a timer would be more of a benefit compared to the complexity of dosing?

 

[taricha]

@taricha
Would you suggest dosing phosphates in addition to nitrates in order to remain in balance?

Tough question. Normally, I would say yes. Add PO4, don't dose NO3 unless you have measurable PO4....
except this is your successful baseline:

My SPS dominant tank was doing great, I would rate it an 8 out of 10 with regards to my hapiness with color and polyp extension. In my need to tweak (mistake, should've left good enough alone) to increase coloration I thought it would be a good idea to raise nitrates from 0 (where they have been for 10+ years) to 5.

If I felt like they needed more nutrition, I might supplement with amino acids or some coral foods, phyto etc, rather than telling you that now you need to add NO3 AND PO4 to your originally happy tank.

 

[131696]

Look at coral euphoria on YouTube at his videos he explains his tanks and nutrients his tank are at 0 nitrates and phosphate He explains heavy nutrients in ,heavy nutrients out,And he keeps it very simple no tech in hes tank , very smart dude ,watch all his videos

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Look at coral euphoria on YouTube at his videos he explains his tanks and nutrients his tank are at 0 nitrates and phosphate He explains heavy nutrients in ,heavy nutrients out,And he keeps it very simple no tech in hes tank , very smart dude ,watch all his videos

lol

Sounds like a recipe for dinos to me.

 

[jschottenfeld]

Look at coral euphoria on YouTube at his videos he explains his tanks and nutrients his tank are at 0 nitrates and phosphate He explains heavy nutrients in ,heavy nutrients out,And he keeps it very simple no tech in hes tank , very smart dude ,watch all his videos

Just watched his video on heavy in and out of nutrients through feeding and filtering. The success that he's had seems to be a better approach vs starting a dosing regimen...at least as a starting point for me. I can try for a few months and note the results.
Thanks for recommending. I subscribed to his channel!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Just watched his video on heavy in and out of nutrients through feeding and filtering. The success that he's had seems to be a better approach vs starting a dosing regimen...at least as a starting point for me. I can try for a few months and note the results.
Thanks for recommending. I subscribed to his channel!

heavy in heavy out is certainly fine if you attain a good balance and can avoid dinos.

Many people cannot attain that balance without dosing one or the other since N and P come together in "heavy in", and not everyone needs both.

 

[131696]

Look at his tank no Dino's ,he all hands on ,no tech simple approach he even talks about Dino's in 1 video the reason people has them and he don't. I think the video is the 1 he answers questions he talks about it.

 

[131696]

Lots of people have 0 nitrates 0 phosphates no Dino's ,I seen 1 video on YouTube chumminghamreef has phosphates of .6 he said YouTube Bahamas llama video 450 gallon and no problems either no Dino's beautiful tank ,it's all about stability and hands on. Love your tank ,love your corals and fish see about them everyday get a routine,that's the problem people get busy and mess up the routine then Dino's happen problems happen. Stability is key to all reef tanks