Started dosing Sodium Nitrate...then the stuff hit the fan :(

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm glad he has no dinos. But undetectable nutrients is, IMO, a substantial risk factor for dinos, and should be considered a drawback of this suggestion.

 

[GARRIGA]

Shouldn’t the question be why the alkalinity rose so high so quickly? Does dosing sodium nitrate cause this? I would think not. Isn’t it just nitrate such as NeoPhos but cheaper?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Shouldn’t the question be why the alkalinity rose so high so quickly? Does dosing sodium nitrate cause this? I would think not. Isn’t it just nitrate such as NeoPhos but cheaper?

I suspect he was adding alk (dosing or by water change) and calcification slowed and dosing did not slow to match it, but he does not address that.

The nitrate itself will boost alk by 2.3 dKH for each 50 ppm consumed.

 

[GARRIGA]

I suspect he was adding alk (dosing or by water change) and calcification slowed and dosing did not slow to match it, but he does not address that.

The nitrate itself will boost alk by 2.3 dKH for each 50 ppm consumed.

That’s right. You explained how nitrates add back alkalinity. Thanks

 

[jschottenfeld]

I suspect he was adding alk (dosing or by water change) and calcification slowed and dosing did not slow to match it, but he does not address that.

The nitrate itself will boost alk by 2.3 dKH for each 50 ppm consumed.

I run a calc reactor, which was unchanged in drip rate or effluent ph throughout the dosing of the sodium nitrate.

 

[keithIHS]

Coral Euphoria's website says NO3 0.1-5 ppm and PO4 0.01-0.03 ppm.
I recently battled (and I think defeated) dinos. An important factor seems to be making sure competing microfauna have sufficient nutrition to outcompete dinos. Heavy in and heavy out may allow this with lower than recommended NO3 and PO4 measurements.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

CoralHeavy in and heavy out may allow this with lower than recommended NO3 and PO4 measurements.

It may have that effect, but I would not assume it is true without some evidence.

if a little sprig of algae on a rock is experiencing a steady 0.01 ppm phosphate and 0.1 ppm nitrate, I cannot see how it knows or cares how much import and export of nutrients is taking place elsewhere in the system.

 

[keithIHS]

Just speculating that frequent large spikes of nutrition may compensate for low levels of consistent nutrition. Also speculating that feeding provides N and P in other forms not detected by NO3 and PO4 tests. But again, just speculating why, if true, Coral Euphoria is successful with 0 NO3 0 PO4. In God we trust, all others bring data

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

But again, just speculating why, if true, Coral Euphoria is successful with 0 NO3 0 PO4. In God we trust, all others bring data

Are they? Why do you think so?

Coral Euphoria says this on their web site:

General FAQs – Coral Euphoria

coraleuphoria.com

What parameters are your corals grown in?​

Our corals are grown in these approximate water conditions:

• Specific gravity: 1.025 (refractometer)
• Temperature: 79.4 – 79.8 F (controller)
• Alkalinity: 8.0 dkH (Salifert test kit)
• Calcium: 410 ppm (Salifert test kit)
• Magnesium: 1400 ppm (Salifert test kit)
• Nitrate: 0.1 – 5 ppm (from ICP results)
• Phosphate: 0.01 – 0.03 ppm (from ICP results)

 

[brmc1985]

What exact product did you dose?

I agree that if phosphate went to low, that could be a substantial problem.

Yep. Seems to me that they had a perfect equilibrium that they were feeding the perfect amount where the NO3 and PO4 created daily by the fish was being used up by the corals in the same amount so testing would show them at zero(aka zero “excess” nutrients) but there is actual nutrients present for them to use. Increasing the NO3 increased a bacteria population that in turn decreased the daily available PO4 and starved the corals.

 

[emain879]

I’m having the same issue I guess with my tank. Not dosing tho

 

[brmc1985]

I’m having the same issue I guess with my tank. Not dosing tho

Corals RTN/STNing? Or low nutrients?

 

[emain879]

Corals RTN/STNing? Or low nutrients?

My nitrates lowered from 7 to 0.0 in 13 days, without doing any dosing or anything, so I’m trying to figure out where they went. But now I’m concerned about Dino’s my phos is .02

 

[brmc1985]

P

My nitrates lowered from 7 to 0.0 in 13 days, without doing any dosing or anything, so I’m trying to figure out where they went. But now I’m concerned about Dino’s my phos is .02

Probably testing error? Have you double checked your test kit or did you do multiple tests through that time period and did it go down slowly?

 

[emain879]

P

Probably testing error? Have you double checked your test kit or did you do multiple tests through that time period and did it go down slowly?

Tested 2 times with Hannah and one time with salifert. I haven’t checked it prior 13 days, because it’s been stable for 9 months

 

[keithIHS]

Are they? Why do you think so?

Coral Euphoria says this on their web site:

General FAQs – Coral Euphoria

coraleuphoria.com

​

What parameters are your corals grown in?​

Our corals are grown in these approximate water conditions:

• Specific gravity: 1.025 (refractometer)
• Temperature: 79.4 – 79.8 F (controller)
• Alkalinity: 8.0 dkH (Salifert test kit)
• Calcium: 410 ppm (Salifert test kit)
• Magnesium: 1400 ppm (Salifert test kit)
• Nitrate: 0.1 – 5 ppm (from ICP results)
• Phosphate: 0.01 – 0.03 ppm (from ICP results)

@125 in post #15 quoted (sort of) a Coral Euphoria YouTube video as having 0 and 0. I haven't tried to find the video. Yeah, I saw those numbers also, so I'm skeptical they're actually 0. I just spent 6 months dealing with dinos probably due to 0 and 0, and I wouldn't wish them on anyone.
By the way, and forgive me if this is thread hijacking, I've read a couple of places where you recommend < 1 ppm NO3, perhaps as low as 0.2. Is this correct? And how would you recommend it be measured? Thanks.

 

[brmc1985]

Tested 2 times with Hannah and one time with salifert. I haven’t checked it prior 13 days, because it’s been stable for 9 months

Hmmmm. Probably not testing error then. Anything else change in the tank?

 

[emain879]

Hmmmm. Probably not testing error then. Anything else change in the tank?

Nothing has changed. I was dosing gfo a very very small amount. Other than that I added a torch coral, which wouldn’t lower my nitrates lol

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

, I've read a couple of places where you recommend < 1 ppm NO3, perhaps as low as 0.2. Is this correct? And how would you recommend it be measured? Thanks.

That’s old. I recommend 2-10 ppm nitrate and 0.02 to 0.1 ppm phosphate.

Folks who are successful with ULNS systems often add N and P in other ways, such as by amino acid dosing.

 

[Rmckoy]

My SPS dominant tank was doing great, I would rate it an 8 out of 10 with regards to my hapiness with color and polyp extension. In my need to tweak (mistake, should've left good enough alone) to increase coloration I thought it would be a good idea to raise nitrates from 0 (where they have been for 10+ years) to 5. After reviewing these forums I decided to follow @Randy Holmes-Farley guidence and dose Sodium Nitrate.

I purchased lab grade soidum nitrate and mixed in the following calculation:

At first I was dosing into my sump 10ml /day for 3 days and there was no change in the tank's nitrates. Increased dosing to 20ml/day for 3 days and tank nitrates went to 1ppm. I continued dosing 20ml/day for another 5 days and tank nitrates were at 5ppm. Bingo!
Once I hit 5ppm I reduced dosing back to 10ml/day.

Problems started happening a day or two later. The tips of my sps started to recede and tissue started peeling back on other corals. Some corals lost their color. I immediately stopped dosing. Tested nitrates at 7ppm. Also tested alk at 12dkh which was very high compared to my normal 8.7dkh

Performed a few 10% water changes over the next couple of days.

It's now about 6 weeks later and half of the corals in my tank have died. Most remaining sps's have tissue damage and I snipped them back to cut off the dead portions.

At this point I am back to 8.5-9dkh and nitrates are back to 0 and the corals that have survived are recovering and getting some of their color back.

What happened? I was testing my nitrates daily throughout the entire dosing process and they never went higher than 7ppm.
Could it have been a shock to my tank since it's been at close to 0ppm nitrates for so many years? Could the sodium nitrate have caused a raise in my alk?

When you dose nitrates of any kind it will slowly increase nitrate levels but almost always it will also increase alkalinity .
I have had to dose nitrates but used calcium nitrate instead of sodium nitrate .