steel frame question

[ochriso]

In the planning stages of a steel frame for a 72x24x29. 220 and I am curious how many of yours have adjustable feet and how many let the frame sit on the floor. I am thinking of letting the frame sit on the floor so the weight will be more evenly distributed. Thanks

 

[cracker]

I have the same size tank. It is very heavy ! I don't know what type of adjustable feet You would use . They must be very strong ! "I think" I'd go with the frame sitting on the floor.and shim the corners for all points level. Just my opinion.

 

[ochriso]

Definitely what I was thinking just wanted to make sure someone didn't have better reason for feet. I'm sure the new tile floor will appreciate not having feet

 

[WilRams]

I have a metal stand with 4 stainless steel leveling feet. Each one is rated at 2250lbs. I would not do it any other way. It makes leveling the tank so easy. They can hold a great amount of weight. Im actually in the planning stages of my display stand which is also for a 220g 72Lx30W24H. On that build I will be using a total of 8.

These are the ones I bought.
https://www.amazon.com/Winco-8T75SA...&qid=1466308557&sr=1-4&keywords=leveling+feet

And here they are on a stand. Hard to see but maybe you get the idea.

 

[kateater]

floor loading in most houses is less than 150lbs/sq ft, so adjustable feet would put tremendous weight in area of a few square inches. I personally wouldn't do it on a tank that size.

 

[fab]

I have a stainless steel stand with adjustable leveling feet. My stand is 96" x 42 x 30H. My tank is 36" tall. I would never build another steel stand without them. I would not even consider doing that.

The important things about installing leveling feet are how the feet are attached to the stand and what their weight bearing capacity is. Attachment is critical. Welding is absolutely required. Mine are TIG welded, stainless steel, to the interior of the vertical legs. The vertical legs are 2" square tubing.

Horizontal bars forming a band around the stand at the floor level do not carry enough weight to matter. They do not really distribute the stand and tank weight as you appear to believe they would.

I believe one of my leveling feet can support your entire system weight. The feet are about 3/4" in diameter with a swivel foot of nylon. Each foot can carry up to 15,000 lb weight in the manner they are welded. I have 8 of them.

 

[davocean]

I would not do adjustable feet, you are pinpointing pressure

 

[thewbell]

I would say it depends heavily on the floor you are putting it on. I have adjustable feet (5,000lbs each) on my stand and could not have reasonable done it any other way. My floor is brick and pretty uneven so leveling feet were my only choice. However, if the floor was wood for example I would not do leveling feet.

 

[TUSI]

I would say it depends heavily on the floor you are putting it on. I have adjustable feet (5,000lbs each) on my stand and could not have reasonable done it any other way. My floor is brick and pretty uneven so leveling feet were my only choice. However, if the floor was wood for example I would not do leveling feet.

+1

 

[ochriso]

Thanks for all the information. I like the ease of the adj feet but also get the distribution thoughts as well. Plan on starting a build thread soon for this project. Happy Fathers Day to all the fathers out there!

 

[michaelrc51]

If you want to use leveling feet but distribute the weight more evenly you could use a piece of 3/4" plywood under the whole stand and leveling feet. It won't be as evenly distributed as if the stand was on the floor but it will help a bit with the distribution of the weight across the whole surface. If worried about water you could use a plastic like ABS plastic but I would use something of a substantial thickness, atlas 3/4".
Downfalls are that you are adding more weight to the area and the stand will have to accommodate the added height, if you are using a finished stand in addition to the metal structure.

 

[maroun.c]

Had leveling feet on my old 150 G tank and they were great to level the tank. Tank was on bricks laid on a red forced cement layer so worked out great.
Didn't risk it on my 400 G

 

[donnievaz]

It would be more expensive but you could use more feet, space them out evenly, level the 4 corners first then adjust the rest down to make contact with the floor.

 

[michaelrc51]

It would be more expensive but you could use more feet, space them out evenly, level the 4 corners first then adjust the rest down to make contact with the floor.

Yeah, but it still create points with massive load on the floor.

 

[Mark Shelly]

Normal floor live loading on houses is 40 pounds per square foot (psf) (2015 IRC) (not what was mentioned above). In upstairs bedrooms it is 30 psf (2015 IRC) and less in attics. Floors are also designed to distribute 300 pounds on a single square foot. The 40 psf live loading is assumed over the entire tributary area of each floor joist, which is usually the length of the joist times the joist spacing (usually 16 or 24 inches). A rough estimate for tank weight is 10 pounds per gallon (include sump water); water is a little under, but you have glass and rocks. So if you have a 220 gallon tank with 4 adjustable feet, you are supporting 2200 pounds + stand weight or 550+ pounds per adjustable foot, more than floors on joists are designed to carry. A 12' joist at a 24" spacing would be designed to support a distributed live load of 80 pounds per linear foot (plf) or 480 pounds over a 6 foot stretch. A tank oriented parallel to the joists would have 2 point loads of 550 pounds or 1100 over this same area. The point load would be excessive, and the distributed load would be excessive. The most notable effect early on an overloaded floor would be a floor that deflects (sags) and is very springy when you walk on it. Over time, it will continue to sag and possibly break. Of note, the 40 pounds per square foot is not considered to be constant, but the max distributed load expected with people and furniture on the floor. Constant loads are make joists permanently deflect and fail faster. And, there are building limits on floor deflection that vary depending on the type of load. Large tanks can exceed these. And placing tanks at the center of the span is the worst location.

If you orient the tank perpendicular to the joists and near the wall or supporting beam, most of the weight will be supported by the foundation through shear and not joist bending, usually. And there will be much less deflection of the joists. It is possible to overload joist hangers if the joist are hung on the side of beams or rim boards or overload ledgers nails if ledgers support joists.

I could go on more as why not to have point loads over 300 pounds, but suffice it to say that if a foot is over a joist, the plywood is not supporting any load. If you are on a plywood panel between joists at a plywood seam, less weight can be supported. A stand on a floor with floor joists should have enough leveling feet (and vertical supports above) that no leveling foot carries over 300 pounds, regardless of the foot capacity. And if you have no feet, have enough vertical members and shim at them so you have less than 300 lbs at each shim. In fact, most shims can not support much weight. Wood shims have grains in the wrong direction and plastic ones are not usually solid. So the more shims the better. Shims in the building industry are used to keep doors and windows vertical, not support weight.

On a cement floor, the loading would be less pronounced, if the builders properly packed the dirt under the slab, or if it was disturbed. Many do not pack correctly. Usually the ground underneath a slab can support 1500 pounds psf or more, but not always. This should be you preferred tank location. More load per foot is reasonable.

If you have any doubt, get a licensed professional engineer from your state to evaluate your fish tank location and provide you with options as needed. Don't go by the advise of someone that it worked fine for. Each house is different. Each location is different.

Having said all the above, does anyone have examples of floor failures under their tanks? The failure could be a tank failure as well if it is not evenly supported. It could be a very bouncy floor (as indicated by water slopping around in your tank as you walk by. It could be a hole in your floor sheathing.

 

[ochriso]

Great info guys. our house is a slab foundation so no concerns with floor joist and such. going to be replacing carpet with new tile before tank and stand go in place. adj feet seem like good idea just a little concerned about concentrating that load on tile but I guess as long as tile is installed properly it should be fine.

 

[davocean]

That's the key, if there are any voids under tile it can crack easily.
I'd be inclined to have that steel stand set on top of a sheet of ply 1/2"-3/4" to help disperse and buffer some of that load, just seal the ply w/ paint or clear.
My local lumber yard sells ply w/ a baked on polyeurethane that is great for this, what I use on most of my cabinet builds for bottom.

I agree w/ the comment not all advice fits every situation, unlevel surface like brick or stone may be a different challenge all together, my floor is stone that had to be dealt w/ differently.
I actually poured a 2" concrete slab on very heavy plastic so I would not damage floor, this worked for me, and it will come right up if I move from here pretty easily.
Some people like those leveling feet, I just worry about what you do or what happens if one fails, they can potentially rust out or just fail.

 

[fab]

.
Some people like those leveling feet, I just worry about what you do or what happens if one fails, they can potentially rust out or just fail.

316 stainless steel will not rust. 15,000 pound weight bearing capacity per each of 8 vertical stand legs will not fail. The legs and feet are not a problem if you design and construct them properly.

Your underlayment will be your main problem to solve. You have total control over everything but the flooring construction but you may be able to beef it up if you need to, whether you build a steel stand or not. My tank stands on level ceramic tiles laid carefully over a reinforced concrete slab, rated at a static carrying capacity of several times the maximum weight of my fully loaded tank and stand. The dynamic load rating is very high. I don't recall the actual quantitative rating for dynamic loading.

 

[fab]

just a little concerned about concentrating that load on tile but I guess as long as tile is installed properly it should be fine.

Be sure you use high quality porcelain ceramic tile. Its compressive strength (psi) is huge.

 

[cracker]

Great info gentlemen, I'm also going to rebuild a stand for my 220. I had no idea One could get adjustable feet that can carry such great weight !All that weight transferred to the threads on that bolt. As for shims I use plastic gift cards for minor adjusts.