Stereonephthya Keepers Thread

[MixedFruitBasket]

Found your post quite interesting. It looks like the Stereo that I got from Divers Den is really a Litophyton. I looked them up in my Borneman coral book and read that they are photosynthetic. That may explain why mine did better when it was moved under lights from a dark area. What have you found?

Stereonephthya can also be photosynthetic. I’ve only come across a few samples that weren’t. In fact a lot of stereo is found in water so shallow when the tide goes out they are exposed to air. I will tell you this. The classification of nephtheidae corals is constantly moving because corals that were once divided into two separate species have been found using DNA to be the same or same enough. And corals originally thought to be the same are not. A lot of books and papers that are 10years or older are out of date and all we can do is wait to see what happens but things like this are slow. I’ve come across a few species (or what appears to be) of stereonephthya that has such tiny polyps and so many it’s difficult to tell if they are stereo. I am by far an expert. What I know and have seen could fit into a thimble and still have infinite space. I’m sure there are more than a few times I’ve gotten things wrong when trying to ID. So for me and my novice schooling, and since this is only a hobby to me, I take the main characteristics (now remember these can cross over so it’s not precise) and use that as a base line.

Stereo: thin skin,(often translucent) 90 degree elbows in polyp, extending supporting bundles, visible sclerites, “crunchy” feeling when retracted, looks like a skinned coral when deflated. Often in two colors although the color may be isolated to the polyps or just the sclerites. Polyps do not retract into the branches. If you want a comparison look at how smooth sinulara get when retracted. Stereo will never do that.



Litophyton: less transparent, softer (especially when extended) but can’t be stiff when contracted, no extending supporting bundles, can be taller when fully extended, usually more “tree” shaped. Taller slinder varieties are easy to mix up with lemnalia until you touch it. But litophyton has sclerites. They are usually more visible in the branches and tiny speckles along the trunk. The branches can fool you big time. Especially with some specimens because the sclerites are so bold. Another thing I’ve noticed with lito is almost all colors even drastic ones like a green one I have, turn some shade of pink when fully extended.

Lemnalia: resembles litophyton from a distance is slimy and drips goo when irritated. I think some are worse than others. I suspect I might have a sample in my tank I thought was lito but it’s not sliming everything so I’ve left it. Almost no sclerites at all except maybe faint ones in the branches but they are usually very tiny and not really lines. Body and branches are soft.


Nepthea: this coral species technically no longer exists and is now merged with litophyton however it seems to have some crossover with stereonephthya. So use nephthya eventhough that’s technically incorrect but it helps (for me) because these traits are so distinctive: it’s very classically “tree” shaped. Smooth trunk branches running off a central stalk reaching upwards not draping. It has denser flesh and less filled with water. Which are all Lito characteristics of lito. However the seem to be a lot stiffer when contract and crunchy and have extending supporting bundles but can be *very tiny* Usually one color but they do come in two or very drastic shades of color between polyps and stalk. Sclerites can be very bold but at the same time “lost” against opaque flesh. Easier to see them with light shining through their bodies.

I can see why Nephthea litophyton gets mistaken for stereo by importers whole sellers and even sellers like LA. But they irritate me when they label something obviously not stereonephthya as stereonephthya or lemnalia as litophyton.


I hit the post button too soon: The family Nephtheidae incorporates everything from Dendronephthya to Kenya trees (capnella). I notice a lot of sellers, labeling all tree corals as "Nephthya or Nephthea species". This is wrong. Nephthea is a specific species and Dendronephthya, capnella, and Lito are *not* all nephthea. And labeling it as nephthea is even more confusing. I think they mean they are the same family (I hope) and all Nephtheidae, which is correct. But nephtheidae encompasses all tree type corals photosynthetic and non photosynthetic.


To correctly label the corals it should be Family Nephtheidae Species Dendronephthya, Family Nephtheidae Species Stereonephthya and so on.
I think they just throw out that blanket term so they aren't claiming any it to be a particular species so when they send the wrong one, oh well.

 

[MixedFruitBasket]

Also the correct spelling is nephthea for nephthea not nepthya or nephthya, both of which I am guilty of because I've seen it spelled nephthya and nepthya so often on the net. So when you see me misspell it, unless I make a notation, it's a very bad habit I've picked up and seriously need to break it.

 

[MixedFruitBasket]

Oh, one more thing.

When a coral is put into captivity (from what has be told to me by biologists) its physiology can change drastically even within a few months. After a coral has been raised for a few generations in captivity, theoretically it could look like a whole new species.

I do not know how this applies to stereonephthya, but I should be able to have a better idea within a year or so. I've collected several baby polyps from my overflow and gotten them to mount on rocks. The ones that took to being caught are growing nicely, the ones who didn't of course jumped the rock or simply disintegrated. As these grow I will be able to see what differences (if any) from future colonies I luck up on. I even have some growing "wild" on my return pip. One colony is less than a 1/8 inch under the water. When it expands its above the water.

I always assumed these corals would like pours ground because that's usually the kind of rock they seemed attached to. Now I think the rock probably crumbled from their "roots" because most seem to attach at the strange and most out of the way places like the sides of wave makers, the underside of other plugs or side of plugs occupied by like or different corals, rack holders, over flows, return nozzles, etc.

 

[Coachp]

After reading through your posts the best I can tell what was sent was a litophyton. And yeah it was a grossly oversized box with a single heat pack taped to the top.
However I recent found this piece from a local reefer im just waiting for it to attach to a rock


I'm also guilty of the misspelling it doesn't help most stores misspell it, causing most searches with proper spelling to turn up nothing.

 

[DanConnor]

Really useful, MFB! You should write an article.

Here's an interesting softie I recently picked up

LaZys Turquoise Nepthea (incredibly rare)

This is a super rare coral. It is a soft coral that resembles a tree. It is very easy to keep with moderate growth rate and stunning turquoise coloration. It has a strong stocky center stalk with delicate branches the terminate into a flower like bud. It is iridescent in color and had a slightly...

lazyscoralhouse.com

 

[MixedFruitBasket]

After reading through your posts the best I can tell what was sent was a litophyton. And yeah it was a grossly oversized box with a single heat pack taped to the top.
However I recent found this piece from a local reefer im just waiting for it to attach to a rock


I'm also guilty of the misspelling it doesn't help most stores misspell it, causing most searches with proper spelling to turn up nothing.

Honestly from what I can see, it looks like stereo. Touch it and let me see the polyps closed. But I swear I see elbows even when open.

 

[MixedFruitBasket]

Really useful, MFB! You should write an article.

Here's an interesting softie I recently picked up

LaZys Turquoise Nepthea (incredibly rare)

This is a super rare coral. It is a soft coral that resembles a tree. It is very easy to keep with moderate growth rate and stunning turquoise coloration. It has a strong stocky center stalk with delicate branches the terminate into a flower like bud. It is iridescent in color and had a slightly...

lazyscoralhouse.com

I am fairly certain that is capnella (i.e. green Kenya tree or blue Kenya tree). I've not seen any true fluorescing in Lito, stereo, or "Nepthea" I'd have to have a better photo to make sure.


As for writing an article: I am by no means educated enough about these corals to try and be a voice of authority. I am simply sharing what I've learned, as a "student" specifically studying nephtheidae corals for almost 2 years now.

 

[Coachp]

Honestly from what I can see, it looks like stereo. Touch it and let me see the polyps closed. But I swear I see elbows even when open.

Nice and spiky!

 

[DanConnor]

I am fairly certain that is capnella (i.e. green Kenya tree or blue Kenya tree). I've not seen any true fluorescing in Lito, stereo, or "Nepthea" I'd have to have a better photo to make sure.


As for writing an article: I am by no means educated enough about these corals to try and be a voice of authority. I am simply sharing what I've learned, as a "student" specifically studying nephtheidae corals for almost 2 years now.

You might be right on the Capnella- I compared it to the green capnella from Pablo at Marine Farmers, and they do look quite similar. The new one has bigger and darker polyps, but that's about it. Nothing like the koji wada specimens I have

 

[MixedFruitBasket]

Okay, these photos aren't great, but here is an example of "I was wrong" and where lines blur.
Disclaimer: I 100% admit, I could be totally wrong on all of this but this is just what I've interpreted from what I've read and grown.


See photo below:

1: most likely litophyton: See how the polyps retract into tiny balls? But you can see sclerites in the branches. Lesser in the body but they are there. But if you look closely the supporting bundle under each polyp has a tiny spike. Some have larger spikes than others and can be easily felt when you touch it (the spikes are not sharp enough to pierce your skin but feel more like velcro). When you feel this one you cannot feel the spikes and I honestly didn't even know they were there till I blew up this photo. Wanted to clear something up here cause I might have muddied the waters before: Litophyton doesn't (contract into the branch) hence why you get the little balls. but it contracts more than stereo which is also why you get the little balls. If you want to see what a polyp looks like fully contracts into a branch look at lobophytum (toad stools) or green star polyps.
I would personally call this nephthea just because it's got both characteristics.
Lito does have a curl to the polyp, not quite an elbow but it's not straight either which is why they look like little balls. The tentacles pull in super tight though practically rolling up inside.
Because it's soft to the touch (despite the supporting bundles) and very treelike, with dense flesh I'd probably label this one Lito if I was selling it or nephthea/litophyton because of how it contracts into balls.


2: Most likely steronephthya. Notice the larger spikes and the elbow on the polyps when they close. They do not retract enough to turn into balls, and they remain outside the branch/body but can pull in really tight, folding up like a lawn chair or Swiss army knife. I said earlier that they always bend 90 (that's not a precise measurement just meant to give a visual) degrees up. I should have been more clear that up means towards the tip of the branch they are on. I'm sure there are the odd polyps that don't but mostly they do. Also note the colors sclerites and transparent flesh. Not all have colored sclerites but most will have tiny flecks of color here and there.

3: Stereo or Lito? Perfect example of specifics crossing the lines and me going "holy crap" I was probably wrong WHILE taking these blown up photos. When I got this coral I was confident the polyps were tiny balls (remember how I said some polyps can be super small), but when I zoomed in it was clear they are not in fact tiny balls but have elbows. Yet they contract a lot they are almost little balls. But this coral has a very classic tree shape, smooth base branches isolated to the upper part, densely covered in polyps. The flesh of this one is also not translucent and the sclerites in the branches are very obvious and stark.
So what is it? I cannot say for certain because it has traits of both. I would probably just call this either nephthea with stereo features or family nephtheidae species unknown. I would be reluctant to call it true stereo because of the overall shape and density of the flesh. It also grows SUPER fast compared to stereo. Which means you can see a size change in a month or so. If want to go by which one is it more like it's more like litophyton since the elbows aren't extreme, has smaller spikes, dense flesh, tree shape.


These aspect are why, in most cases, places like Live Aquaria are incorrectly labeling the coral. It takes super close examination to know for certain unless it's obviously translucent which is a trait I personally only associate with stereo. So they aren't doing it on purpose, but I do wish they had someone who could 1: Take really close up photos of the polyps along with the over all coral. 2: had someone who at least had some chance of getting the species correct. 3. Felt it was important enough to take the time to look them over when labeling them. I'm sure they are just going by what the whole seller labels them as. I mean if the whole seller calls them that they have to be right?

Wrong; On their ORA section, they have two types of "nepthea" listed one some weird fancy "tree coral" name. Both of this are plain old capnella. I.e. Kenya trees. And they are charging an arm and leg (okay more like a pinky but still its capnella and not even anything unique in color)

However I also think sometimes they're just out of give-a-(you enter your word here).
Why? Because I know for a fact they have a picture of Litophyton on their general stock list under the Paralemnalia.
"For a fact MFB, sure...how can you know for a fact". Well, because I bought that particular piece on divers den about a year ago and they are reusing the same photo. I mentioned this to them so they changed the photo. But guess what, I'd bought that particular coral too. If you go into that section it basically states "random tree coral" and they aren't even promising paralemalia, which you don't want anyhow unless you like goo. They can be pretty though (as long as you don't touch it or smell it), just toxic to a lot of other corals. They did this after selling "litophyton/yellow tree coral" that wound up being Lemnalia. Bet you can guess how I know that too...that's right, I bought several. They did good the first four times, then after that started sending brown lemnalia. They did eventually give me credit but I felt like I was having to write a college paper with a diagram to argue my point. And I might not have bothered except I paid a PREMIUM for those things. After about the forth time of getting the wrong thing they told me they would only put later corals on DD. I still wound up with 2 Lemnalia tabled as Lito (but like I said from afar they can look very similar) but the rest have been Lito.


I hear a tiny voice (probably in my head) saying: What about neospongodes.
Well, apparently there has been a 100 year argument as to whether or not there is a Neospongodes species and it's just not stereo. Just like there is the argument of chromonephthya just being stereo as well. From what I understand this is where DNA is coming in to speciate them because there are phenotypic differences and similarities that make it hard/impossible to tell by the eye.


Again: No expert, no degree, just anecdotal evidence and interpretation of text that is available as well as personal deduction based on a lot of conflicting scientific papers done by a myriad of biologists.

 

[MixedFruitBasket]

You might be right on the Capnella- I compared it to the green capnella from Pablo at Marine Farmers, and they do look quite similar. The new one has bigger and darker polyps, but that's about it. Nothing like the koji wada specimens I have

Yeah, depending on which "Koji Wada" you have one is stereo the other is? I have no freaking idea. I have one of each. The source told me that they were both Koji Wada, okay, fine all good, but they are not the same species. Not complaining, just pointing that out. And it's obvious they aren't so who knows. I'd say the one I have looks like sclero except it likes light and has grown well despite concentrated efforts to accidentally kill it on numerous occasions. I suspect it's probably some type of litophyton.

 

[MixedFruitBasket]

Nice and spiky!

Do you have an expanded photo? That looks almost like Dendronephthya

 

[Coachp]

Do you have an expanded photo? That looks almost like Dendronephthya

Not the best picture I took it the other night with the lights off. Having a heck of a time finding a place it opens with the lights on. The picture i posted earlier was it before I moved it. I'm assuming its still acclimating

 

[DanConnor]

Yeah, depending on which "Koji Wada" you have one is stereo the other is? I have no freaking idea. I have one of each. The source told me that they were both Koji Wada, okay, fine all good, but they are not the same species. Not complaining, just pointing that out. And it's obvious they aren't so who knows. I'd say the one I have looks like sclero except it likes light and has grown well despite concentrated efforts to accidentally kill it on numerous occasions. I suspect it's probably some type of litophyton.

This one came from Unique- does that make it the "real" one?

Edit- I already asked you that in this thread a year ago

 

[MixedFruitBasket]

I have two from unique corals and one from marine farmers. One of mine from Unique looks like this. The other one doesn't look anything like it. I asked them about it but they didn't seem to understand or were worried I as mad. I told them no, I actually felt rather honored to have it since I've not seen anyone else with it. I'll take side by side photos to show the difference.

As for whether of not it's stereo or nepthea/lito, I don't know. It's been bred in captivity long enough that its physiology has most likely changed. Some of the polyps look like they fold, most do not. The sclerites are so prominent and so are the spikes on the supporting bundles and the skin thin but apparently it's fleshier than it appears cause it's firm...Like I said, some have traits that cross over. However, I never see the Koji deflate like stereo. When it deflates it's like skin only and that's it. You really think it's dead but it's not falling apart. It will do that random times during the day. I don't know if it's digesting food or removing waste or what.

I admit, I don't understand some of the coral classifications, for example, why they merged litophyton and nepthea into one and call it Lito, because from what I've seen there are some pretty stark differences and keeping the species nephthea seems to cover the in-between state of Lito and stereo.

But I'm not a biologist and don't get the ins and outs most of the time.

This one came from Unique- does that make it the "real" one?

Edit- I already asked you that in this thread a year ago

 

[MixedFruitBasket]

Not the best picture I took it the other night with the lights off. Having a heck of a time finding a place it opens with the lights on. The picture i posted earlier was it before I moved it. I'm assuming its still acclimating

The blur is making it hard to see. Can you get a clearer photo? Maybe an unclose of the polyps? Also do you know where it's from?

 

[BradB]

I have one on order from Unique Corals but am interested where else I can find these.

 

[Coachp]

The blur is making it hard to see. Can you get a clearer photo? Maybe an unclose of the polyps? Also do you know where it's from?

Took awhile but its finally opening full time!

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Just found on IG

 

[MixedFruitBasket]

Yes, looks like stereo. Very nice specimen too!

Took awhile but its finally opening full time!