Sudden death of all fish... Inverts okay?

[MarsRover]

hello,

Just got home and the lights were off for night time. I happened to peak into the tank and all three of my fish are dead. Inverts are all fine it seems (corals are a bit retracted which isn't unusual for the, at night, shrimp and snails are fine).

The fish were fine and active today. Been eating well with no sign of illness. I've had these three for many months.

The only thing I did different today that I haven't done in a while was give them spectrum pellets. They ate them fine. Didn't choke or anything....

My wrasse died belly up in her sleeping hole. There's a spot she always goes into in my life rock and she's there but belly up. My mocha clown pair is also belly up.

What he heck happened?!?!

I'll test H20 in the morning. It's late. Ugh.

 

[Blue Spot Octopus]

I am sorry for your lose. Those things always seem to happen the one time I do not check on my tank. Are the lights blinking on your clocks? possible power outage.

 

[MarsRover]

Does not look like a power failure.

I'm not crazy...... last night when we came home from being out for 4 hours, right when we opened the door to the house/old/new fish tank areas, it smelled funny.

Not bad funny. But like fresh rain, or fresh sand funny.

I quickly assumed it was my new tank (still dry - 230gal in my signature) that i had just filled with 200lbs+ of sand from Marcorocks.

I then 10 minutes later noticed the fish in my running tank dead.


this morning i went to get them out of the tank. I noticed the exact same "fresh rain" or "fresh sand" smell coming from the sump/tank with the dead fish.


What the heck is going on!

I just collected water in a trition kit and will be sending it out first thing tomorrow. Unique is less than a 20minute drive away so hopefully it will get to trition by wednesday.


I'm going to test water now.


Any ideas?

 

[scriptmonkey]

Stray voltage in the tank? Is the electrical system for this tank GFCI'ed?

 

[Jason mack]

I'm sorry for your loss , I know how frustrating this can be , until you find the reason .. Ammonia?? Have you done any initial testing yourself yet ?

 

[Mr. Bill]

I can't think of anything that would kill only the fish unless it was something they ingested. Corals and inverts are usually more sensitive to most everything. Does your tank have a cover? I recall someone posting here just a few days ago about one of his fish dying after eating a firefly that landed in his tank. IIRC, it was either a puffer or trigger.

 

[ebushrow]

Did anyone clean near or on the tank with a cleaner that smells like fresh rain....or plug in a glade plug-in really close?.....theses occasionally rear their dirty heads by accident and wipe out tanks....just an idea

 

[Katrina71]

I'm so sorry

 

[melypr1985]

I would also like to know about any cleaning, candles, air fresheners ect that may have been used around, near or in the same room as the tank. Do you have kids? Mine likes to put things in the sump because he thinks its funny (can't now that the sump is in a fish room). Had you added anything (wet) new to the tank in the last month?

 

[MarsRover]

Okay Nitrate test is running now but in all honesty i doubt it will turn up anything.

Did anyone clean near or on the tank with a cleaner that smells like fresh rain....or plug in a glade plug-in really close?.....theses occasionally rear their dirty heads by accident and wipe out tanks....just an idea

Here is what i have done in the last few days:

Friday: 10 gal water change, nothing else
Saturday: my GF did clean in the house using Pledge Multisurface Glade aerosolized cleaner...rainshower smell.....crap.....though she knows to stay far away.....


Okay Nitrates 0. pH 8.0 and Sal 1.030

Doing ten gallons of water change now. can do more than ten at a time as i have some euphyllia near the top that will suffer if the water level starts to press on their skeletons.

Going to go to petsmart down the street as soon as they open and get some carbon filters.


probably also going to have to get chemipure/phosguard etc... since i couldn't locate two of the fish....

The only other difference yesterday other than cleaning was that i fed the fish spectrum pellets for the first time in a long time. But that was midday and they ate them fine.

Some snails are looking a bit grumpy. Acanthophyllia, Euphyllia, and some of the SPS's (birdsnests...) are looking...okay....

ugh this hobby is so emotionally difficult sometimes.

I would also like to know about any cleaning, candles, air fresheners ect that may have been used around, near or in the same room as the tank. Do you have kids? Mine likes to put things in the sump because he thinks its funny (can't now that the sump is in a fish room). Had you added anything (wet) new to the tank in the last month?

no, no kids. other than dogs and wet friends. And the dogs know very well not to put weird things in the tank

Stray voltage in the tank? Is the electrical system for this tank GFCI'ed?

No stray voltages. Also, i'd think if the tank was shocked my inverts (shrimp etc...) would be toast too? I was thinking this last night too as i tried to fall asleep.

I'm sorry for your loss , I know how frustrating this can be , until you find the reason .. Ammonia?? Have you done any initial testing yourself yet ?

I don't have a reliable ammonia test kit. Mine expired recently and i need to get a new one. Nitrate is reading at 0. Has been consistently for a while. I'm starting not to trust it. It's the red sea pro nitrate test kit. Going to have to get another one to corroborate it's results.

I can't think of anything that would kill only the fish unless it was something they ingested. Corals and inverts are usually more sensitive to most everything. Does your tank have a cover? I recall someone posting here just a few days ago about one of his fish dying after eating a firefly that landed in his tank. IIRC, it was either a puffer or trigger.

This is exactly what my Girlfriend said. She said "spider" which i thought was super unlikely. Fireflys are known to be toxic to animals (as anyone who keeps lizards, chameleons, and geckos should be warned...) but i haven't ever seen any here where i live in the San Gabriel Foothills. That isn't to say there aren't other toxic critters out there. But i doubt they would have eaten it and then died later. With fireflys, it's pretty immediate. My wrasse clearly was cognizant enough to go to her sleeping cubby before going belly up.

 

[melypr1985]

Saturday: my GF did clean in the house using Pledge Multisurface Glade aerosolized cleaner...rainshower smell.....crap.....though she knows to stay far away.....

This could be a problem. The aerosolized cleaners are a very very fine mist that can travel around a room farther than you might think. Especially with air currents, fans, A/C vents ect.

Sal 1.030

This is pretty high... is it always this high or did this happen recently?

 

[MarsRover]

This could be a problem. The aerosolized cleaners are a very very fine mist that can travel around a room farther than you might think. Especially with air currents, fans, A/C vents ect.

This is pretty high... is it always this high or did this happen recently?

1.026 is the goal right?

1.030 is only 0.004 more than that. I never thought this would be considered "pretty high"?

Usually my tank is somewhere between 1.025 and 1.030 depending on how good i am being about adding RO/DI every few days.

 

[Mr. Bill]

1.026 is the goal right?

1.030 is only 0.004 more than that. I never thought this would be considered "pretty high"?

Usually my tank is somewhere between 1.025 and 1.030 depending on how good i am being about adding RO/DI every few days.

To put it into perspective, 1.026 sg = 34.5 ppt, 1.030 sg = 39.7 ppt. So yes, that's too high. Fish can tolerate lower-than-normal salinity better than higher.

 

[melypr1985]

1.026 is the goal right?

1.030 is only 0.004 more than that. I never thought this would be considered "pretty high"?

Usually my tank is somewhere between 1.025 and 1.030 depending on how good i am being about adding RO/DI every few days.

1.024-1.026 is the ideal zone. Remember that most of these creatures are made up of the majority of this water. They live and breathe in it. The goal is to keep it rock steady at the same salinity all the time. Changes going up and down can cause issues and stress and even damage in some cases. Going down is easier on them than going up, but it's not a good idea to let the salinity swing regularly. I would advise getting an ATO or being diligent about topping up every day.

 

[Flippers4pups]

I would agree with melypr, you need a ATO for your tank and 1.030 is very high.

What are you using to test SG?

Also, I would discontinue using any aerosol clearners in the house going forward or at least spray them dirtectly into a towel and then use. Keeping any mist from escaping from the towel while doing this.

Any air fresheners or anything that can be sprayed would be discouraged as well.

 

[Mr. Bill]

This could be a problem. The aerosolized cleaners are a very very fine mist that can travel around a room farther than you might think. Especially with air currents, fans, A/C vents ect.

This is pretty high... is it always this high or did this happen recently?

Things are starting to point toward low dissolved O2. Fish require a lot more oxygen than corals and inverts. The higher your sg, the lower the O2 content. IF enough spray mist entered the tank to interfere with your skimmer for a short period (but not enough to become toxic), that would lower O2 even further, long enough for the fish to suffocate.

 

[MarsRover]

Okay, so GF and i talked and from now on we are only ever cleaning with liquid bleach:H20 mix or pure liquid ammonia and never near the fish tank ever....ever...

To put it into perspective, 1.026 sg = 34.5 ppt, 1.030 sg = 39.7 ppt. So yes, that's too high. Fish can tolerate lower-than-normal salinity better than higher.

That perspective makes sense to me. I am working my way back down to 1.026 right now. Bailing NaCl and adding RO/DI should help too with getting any spray-cleaner crap out of the water.

1.024-1.026 is the ideal zone. Remember that most of these creatures are made up of the majority of this water. They live and breathe in it. The goal is to keep it rock steady at the same salinity all the time. Changes going up and down can cause issues and stress and even damage in some cases. Going down is easier on them than going up, but it's not a good idea to let the salinity swing regularly. I would advise getting an ATO or being diligent about topping up every day.

So, i have to admit to you all, i have been planning my 230Gal build and building it and it has been very distracting. I will be better.

As for an ATO, i am building one for my big tank. I just regret neglecting my current tank in hopes for the new one.

I would agree with melypr, you need a ATO for your tank and 1.030 is very high.

What are you using to test SG?

Also, I would discontinue using any aerosol clearners in the house going forward or at least spray them dirtectly into a towel and then use. Keeping any mist from escaping from the towel while doing this.

Any air fresheners or anything that can be sprayed would be discouraged as well.

For SG testing i use a refractometer. I just double checked and it is calibrated to zero with my RO/DI water. Also double checked the water maker and i am getting 0 ppt out of that.

Things are starting to point toward low dissolved O2. Fish require a lot more oxygen than corals and inverts. The higher your sg, the lower the O2 content. IF enough spray mist entered the tank to interfere with your skimmer for a short period (but not enough to become toxic), that would lower O2 even further, long enough for the fish to suffocate.

Ugh this is making so much sense. I feel awful. I'm lowering my SG slowly as we speak. I wonder if also the MH light turning off and going just to my evening T5's last night further hurt the O2 concentration. PH spike, less photosynthesis by corals/algae suddenly and thereby less O2 generation, letting the O2 drop even further. This is all adding up....


I also am keeping my MH off today so as to not further stress the corals. It does seem the snails are becoming more spry the more i change water. This morning i woke up and they were like writhing upside down. Ugh. This is my very first real "bad" event in all of my keeping of reef tanks (even when i kept them throughout high school, never anything terrible like this).

I feel terrible. I have been designing all of these new things into my new tank build to allow the tank to be more resilient, self sufficient, and robust with automation and now the fish i've had for a year won't ever see it. Hard lessons.

 

[Jason mack]

Quote ""For SG testing i use a refractometer. I just double checked and it is calibrated to zero with my RO/DI water. Also doublechecked the water maker and i am getting 0 ppt out of that.""

I would consider getting yourself some calibration fluid 35 ppm for your refractometer.. instead of using RODI too calibrate or buy yourself a decent hydrometer too measure your sg .. just my two cents worth !!

 

[Mr. Bill]

Quote ""For SG testing i use a refractometer. I just double checked and it is calibrated to zero with my RO/DI water. Also doublechecked the water maker and i am getting 0 ppt out of that.""

I would consider getting yourself some calibration fluid 35 ppm for your refractometer.. instead of using RODI too calibrate or buy yourself a decent hydrometer too measure your sg .. just my two cents worth !!

Yes, refractometers have a short accuracy range and need to be calibrated at or very near the target. Personally, I prefer a lab-grade floating glass hydrometer.

 

[MarsRover]

Yes, refractometers have a short accuracy range and need to be calibrated at or very near the target. Personally, I prefer a lab-grade floating glass hydrometer.

Interesting.... I feel like everyone i talk to says something different. Can't hurt to have both!

PetCo just took a bunch of my money....
Got another Nitrate and Ammonia test kit (API) double checked my RedSea Nitrate test from earlier this morning and the API also reads zero
Got a new Ammonia test kit (API) Ammonia reads 0.25.

I also bought SeaChem Matrix Carbon, phosguard, and Matrix.

I put the Matrix carbon in the tank after rinsing with RO/DI.

going to put the Matrix pellets in there later. Going to test Phosphate now.