Switching from Balling to Carbo-Calcium/ Calcium Formate- Am I crazy?

mikedb

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My 10-month old 140 gallon mixed reef is really hitting its stride, with my SPS and LPS frags all growing well. To get me through the first few months, I have been dosing Aquaforest pre-mixed 3-part (equal amounts of each part), which is essentially the balling method with supplemental trade elements and magnesium. It has been working very well, and my ICP tests have been coming back with very good results, albeit with slightly high calcium and borderline-too-high magnesium.

However, that strategy is expensive, and generates a lot of plastic waste. Now that I am consuming 125ml/day (and increasing quickly), I am going to start mixing additives myself. I have 2 DOS units and 2 DDS 2L reservoir pairs, and a major goal is to make the process as simple as possible. I was considering two options:

Option 1: Manually Mixed Aquaforest: Aquaforest publishes a method of making their 3-part using KH Buffer Dry, Calcium Dry, Magnesium Dry, Reef Mineral Salt, and the 4 Components Strong. According to my calculations, the strength of this mixture is 2600 dKH/L

Option 2: Tropic Marin Components: Essentially the same thing can be accomplished using the Tropic Marin Original Balling Set, Pro-Coral A+ and Pro Coral K-, and their Bio-magnesium. The strength of this mixture is 2800dKH/l (before addition of the trade elements). Two fewer bottles to measure and mix, but otherwise identical.

I called Lou Eckus, The Tropic Marin USA Rep, to get his thoughts on the above. He is a really great guy and spent over 30 minutes on the phone with me, ultimately suggesting a different option that I had never seriously considered before:

Option 3: Tropic Marin Carbo-Calcium: This method would use an 8:1:1 mixture of Carbo-Calcium (mixed from powder) : Pro-Coral A+ : Pro Coral K-, with Bio-magnesium added as necessary. The strength of this mixture is 5600dKH/l (before addition of the trade elements).

Pros of Carbo-Calcium:

One of the primary goals for this tank is to reduce and eliminate maintenance as much as possible, and to have redundancy for life-critical equipment. Calcium formate sure sounds great:
  • Twice the potency- half the mixing/refilling
  • Only one part to mix - meaning I could use one of the extra reservoirs (previously used for 3-part) and go four times longer between top-ups! This also means I would have a redundant reservoir and dosing pump, eliminating a key life-critical aspect of my tank that doesn't currently have a backup. And I would have a spare dosing head and pump left over.
  • Fewer individual ingredients to weigh and mix

Cons of Carbo-Calcium:
  • Calcium formate dosing is a form of carbon dosing, which may increase the amount of phosphate and nitrate I need to dose to keep them above zero
  • Change. One of the key things I have taken from articles and posts from seasoned aquarists is that changes, even minor ones, can be very detrimental to the tank ecosystem. I have gone to great lenghts to minimize any changes to the tank, even minimal ones. Thsi would be a major change. I am very concerned that, after finally starting to see good health and growth in my SPS, that I could suffer a real setback from this switch. This is the only thing holding be back from making the switch.
Has anyone else made this switch, and how was the experience?
 

tautog83

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well the carbo calcium , makes almost 3 gallons for 30 bucks then figure 20 and 20 for the trace elements , but if mixed 8 to 1 , not bad at all. so thats $ 70. i mean my consumption isnt nearly as big yet so 3 gallons would last me a bit. i want to try this for a couple months until i get my calcium reactor . i feel like it may be worth it if you dont have crazy consumption and hell i still have 25-30 nitrates lol
 
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mikedb

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It’s a fine thing to try and see how your tank responds, but I would not guess it is cheaper than a good two part.

Hi Randy, thanks for your comment and for all you do for this hobby. Nearly all of what I know about chemistry as it pertains to this hobby was learned through your articles.

While cost isn't a primary motivation for me, I thought it would be interesting to compare. I based this on my current consumption of 125ml/day or 325 dKH/day, multiplied by 31 days equals 10,000 dKH/month

Current: Aquaforest Pre-Mixed
  • 10,000 dKH/month / 2600 dKH/l * $11.40/l = $~44/month
Option A: Aquaforest Self-Mixed
  • Making 1 liter of all 3 parts costs $3.30
    • 50g Calcium - $38/4000g = $0.475
    • 80g KH Buffer - $38/5000g = $0.61
    • 10g Magnesium - $38/4000g = $0.01
    • 25g Mineral Salt - $38/5000g = $0.19
    • 5g of each trace element = $29/ 75ml = $1.93
  • 10,000 dKH/month / 2600 dKH/l * $3.30/l = $~13/month
Option B: Tropic Marin Self-Mixed
  • Making 1 liter of all 3 parts costs $6.10
    • 76g Calcium - $14.25/1000g = $1.08
    • 76g KH - $10.68/1000g = $0.81
    • 24g Mineral Salt = $16/1000g = $0.38
    • 10g Magnesium (assume same concentration) - $38/1500g = $0.25
    • 56ml Trace 1 = $32/1000ml = $1.80
    • 56ml Trace 2 = $32/1000ml = $1.80
  • 10,000 dKH/month / 2800 dKH/l * $6.10/l = $~22/month
Option C: Tropic Marin Carbo-Calcium Mixture
  • Making 1 liter of all 3 parts costs $10.00
    • 800ml Solution = 140g - $31/1400g = $3.10
    • 100ml Trace 1 = $32/1000ml = 3.20
    • 100ml Trace 2 = $32/1000ml = 3.20
    • 20g Bio-Magnesium - $38/1500g = $0.50
  • 10,000 dKH/month / 5600 dKH/l * $10/l = $~18/month
 

tautog83

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i think what hes getting at is if you bought the brs one but from what i know , it doesnt have trace elements..is it necessary, i dont know . im trying to learn as well
 

LadyTang2

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Carbocalcium will use up quite a bit of o2 if dosed at once, dont know how this will effect the tank. It will also lower ph as the rxn throws off co2.
 

Superlightman

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Hi Randy, thanks for your comment and for all you do for this hobby. Nearly all of what I know about chemistry as it pertains to this hobby was learned through your articles.

While cost isn't a primary motivation for me, I thought it would be interesting to compare. I based this on my current consumption of 125ml/day or 325 dKH/day, multiplied by 31 days equals 10,000 dKH/month

Current: Aquaforest Pre-Mixed
  • 10,000 dKH/month / 2600 dKH/l * $11.40/l = $~44/month
Option A: Aquaforest Self-Mixed
  • Making 1 liter of all 3 parts costs $3.30
    • 50g Calcium - $38/4000g = $0.475
    • 80g KH Buffer - $38/5000g = $0.61
    • 10g Magnesium - $38/4000g = $0.01
    • 25g Mineral Salt - $38/5000g = $0.19
    • 5g of each trace element = $29/ 75ml = $1.93
  • 10,000 dKH/month / 2600 dKH/l * $3.30/l = $~13/month
Option B: Tropic Marin Self-Mixed
  • Making 1 liter of all 3 parts costs $6.10
    • 76g Calcium - $14.25/1000g = $1.08
    • 76g KH - $10.68/1000g = $0.81
    • 24g Mineral Salt = $16/1000g = $0.38
    • 10g Magnesium (assume same concentration) - $38/1500g = $0.25
    • 56ml Trace 1 = $32/1000ml = $1.80
    • 56ml Trace 2 = $32/1000ml = $1.80
  • 10,000 dKH/month / 2800 dKH/l * $6.10/l = $~22/month
Option C: Tropic Marin Carbo-Calcium Mixture
  • Making 1 liter of all 3 parts costs $10.00
    • 800ml Solution = 140g - $31/1400g = $3.10
    • 100ml Trace 1 = $32/1000ml = 3.20
    • 100ml Trace 2 = $32/1000ml = 3.20
    • 20g Bio-Magnesium - $38/1500g = $0.50
  • 10,000 dKH/month / 5600 dKH/l * $10/l = $~18/month
Finally what you did
 

Just grow it: Have you ever added CO2 to your reef tank?

  • I currently use a CO2 with my reef tank.

    Votes: 6 6.7%
  • I don’t currently use CO2 with my reef tank, but I have in the past.

    Votes: 4 4.4%
  • I have never used CO2 with my reef tank, but I plan to in the future.

    Votes: 5 5.6%
  • I have never used CO2 with my reef tank and have no plans to in the future.

    Votes: 70 77.8%
  • Other.

    Votes: 5 5.6%

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