Switching from2 part to also use kalwasser

[spiraling]

Hi all,
I am currently using BRS 2 part on my reefer 525 (about 120 us gal total volume) with a growing mixed reef. My PH runs a little low at about 7.8 - 8.0. We keep the doors open a lot and I know with the cold weather that my PH will drop when we close the doors (it does each year).

I'm not really trying to chase PH, but I was thinking of adding kalkwasser would help raise the PH and I have a few questions:

1 - can kalkwasser be used in conjunction with 2 part? Is it best to switch completely to kalk?
2 - unlike the 2 part, there is no mixing or dosing instructions on the kalkwasser. Is there a reference sheet on it (This is the dry BRS kalwasser in the 1 gallon jug). I am currently consuming about 70ml of each alk and ca two part a day.
3 - I don't want to add it to my top off. My husband is good at helping me keep the reservoir filled and I don't want to make him measure and add stuff. Instead I would like to use a doser. Do I need a stirrer or is shaking by hand once a day good enough?

Are there any other considerations before I start using it?

 

[Webslinger]

1 - yes, but switch completely
2 - yes- https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/how-to-add-kalk-to-your-auto-top-off
3 - ATO is the way to go with Kalk. Why have another Jug of water and pump?

 

[blasterman]

Kalk can be used in conjunction with two part dosing and calcium reactors. In fact, most reefers do this, especially in conjunction with calcium reactors where pH tends to be pushed down in the tank,

You can use kalk dosing to replace calcium and alk dosing entirely, but there are limits. First, alk and calcium consumption don't always track perfectly in some tanks, so at some point kalk dosing will typically result in high calcium and low alk. Easy enough to suppliment alk (box of baking soda), but you have to think ahead on this. It's a moving variable.

Kalk dosing also hits a wall in terms of saturation. Different opinions on this, but I've found 1/2 teaspoon of kalk powder per 10 gal per 24 hours is the most I'm willing to tolerate. Any more and I've got too much precipitation in my tanks in the form of calcium carbonate gunk building up on everything over time.

So, once again you use your head and dilute kalk powder to match your top off rates, not what some guy says on a reefing forum says and works for his tank. You can always dilute kalk more to better match your top off rates and alk / clacium take up. Again, you can always run kalk to be a bit under your calcium and alk requirements and just tweak those two manually once a week or so, and get the best of all worlds.

 

[spiraling]

Ok, I found a calculator (from Randy in another post) to see how much I need:

Reef Chemistry Calculator

Using saturated kalk (2 teaspoons / gallon)
My current usage of 2 part is about 70ml for alk, or about 0.8dKH / day
So I would need 0.84 gallons of kalk, which seems like a lot for PH

Another post says the PH rise will differ between how high alk already is, and how high PH already is.

If I want to raise my PH by about 0.2 (from 7.8 to 8.0 approx)
And I keep my alk around 9dKH
How much saturated kalk does it take? At that point I can supplement my 2 part as needed.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Limewater (kalkwasser) is a fine choice. i used it for 20 years. But now you can also make a two part with the same pH boost as limewater using sodium hydroxide in place of sodium carbonate or bicarbonate.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If I want to raise my PH by about 0.2 (from 7.8 to 8.0 approx)
And I keep my alk around 9dKH
How much saturated kalk does it take? At that point I can supplement my 2 part as needed.

It doesn't work that way. There is a clear, calculable effect, but it fades as the tank draws in CO2.

Using all limewater (kalkwasser) may not give you as much as you want.

 

[spiraling]

Limewater (kalkwasser) is a fine choice. i used it for 20 years. But now you can also make a two part with the same pH boost as limewater using sodium hydroxide in place of sodium carbonate or bicarbonate.

I'm using the BRS soda ash. I don't see a sodium hydroxide product.
The soda ash does raise PH. Is this what you meant? Or is there a different product that I should look at to raise it more?

 

[Alchameth]

I use the Avast Kalk stirrer and they have a chart on how much to add to the stirrer based on how much your tank evaps every 1-2 weeks. I was mixing in my ATO water for the first few weeks and decided that was enough of that. Stirrer was way worth it and the added bonus that the water is fully saturated and all the permeate is at the bottom and doesn't get in the tank.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm using the BRS soda ash. I don't see a sodium hydroxide product.
The soda ash does raise PH. Is this what you meant? Or is there a different product that I should look at to raise it more?

BRS doesn't sell it (yet, at least; its a new recipe of mine). Amazon does. It raises pH twice as much as the carbonate.

Amazon product

There are several versions of the recipe. Here is one:

New DIY Two Part Recipes with Higher pH Boost

Here's a first crack at what may end up being multiple possible recipes for a DIY two part that either has a higher pH or can be made more concentrated than traditional two part recipes. This one has about twice the pH raising effect compared to a carbonate based two part, per unit of...

www.reef2reef.com

and

Second New DIY Two Part Recipe with Higher pH Boost

In a previous thread, I posted a true two part DIY recipe: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-diy-two-part-recipes-with-higher-ph-boost.344500/ But some folks may want to just swap the new ingredient into my 2/3 part recipe (as used by BRS, for example). Here's the original recipe link...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I use the Avast Kalk stirrer and they have a chart on how much to add to the stirrer based on how much your tank evaps every 1-2 weeks. I was mixing in my ATO water for the first few weeks and decided that was enough of that. Stirrer was way worth it and the added bonus that the water is fully saturated and all the permeate is at the bottom and doesn't get in the tank.

Have you ever measured the saturation? Conductivity is a great way. Saturation is about 10.3 mS/cm. pH can be a crude measure.

Many folks are surprised to find their reactor does not produce saturated limewater.

 

[spiraling]

BRS doesn't sell it (yet, at least; its a new recipe of mine). Amazon does. It raises pH twice as much as the carbonate.

Amazon product

There are several versions of the recipe. Here is one:

New DIY Two Part Recipes with Higher pH Boost

Here's a first crack at what may end up being multiple possible recipes for a DIY two part that either has a higher pH or can be made more concentrated than traditional two part recipes. This one has about twice the pH raising effect compared to a carbonate based two part, per unit of...

www.reef2reef.com

and

Second New DIY Two Part Recipe with Higher pH Boost

In a previous thread, I posted a true two part DIY recipe: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-diy-two-part-recipes-with-higher-ph-boost.344500/ But some folks may want to just swap the new ingredient into my 2/3 part recipe (as used by BRS, for example). Here's the original recipe link...

www.reef2reef.com

It's stripping off your amazon link. Do you have one or what to search for?

 

[spiraling]

It's stripping off your amazon link. Do you have one or what to search for?

Belle chemical food grade sodium hydroxide?

 

[spiraling]

Is it OK to use the sodium hydroxide as my alk, and the BRS calcium and mag for the other parts?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Belle chemical food grade sodium hydroxide?

Any brand is fine if food grade. I randomly picked one.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Is it OK to use the sodium hydroxide as my alk, and the BRS calcium and mag for the other parts?

yes.

 

[Doctorgori]

nice

 

[spiraling]

@Randy Holmes-Farley
OK, so let's check my math here.

Your recipe is
Add 283 grams of sodium hydroxide to 1 gallon of fresh water
this calculator:

Weight to Volume conversions for select substances and materials

Convert weight to volume for different substances and materials based on their density. Weight and calculated volume are in different units of measurement

www.aqua-calc.com

assuming about the same weight to volume as salt
I need to add about 1/2 c TO the gallon of water (and never the water to the sodium hydroxide) Does this sound about right?

next, I need about .8 dKH/ day (or about 70ml BRS liquid soda ash)
This will make 5,300 dKH / liter
to get .8 dKH I would need about

.8 dKH x liter/5300dKH x 1000ml / liter = 0.15ml

umm - that seems really really small. What did i do wrong here?

 

[pseudorand]

I was mixing in my ATO water for the first few weeks and decided that was enough of that.

I switched from kalk to 2-part for the same reason. You have to mix the kalk and let it sit still and suspend the dosing hose above the bottom so you don't pull in the sludge -- what
A pain. And I had to dose a gallon a week to maintain 8dkh in my 120. With 2-part, I just add a few measured squirts while the food thaws and it works great.

Maybe it's not such a pain with the stirrers and other equipment, but I went with 2-part for ease of use.

 

[Alchameth]

I switched from kalk to 2-part for the same reason. You have to mix the kalk and let it sit still and suspend the dosing hose above the bottom so you don't pull in the sludge -- what
A pain. And I had to dose a gallon a week to maintain 8dkh in my 120. With 2-part, I just add a few measured squirts while the food thaws and it works great.

Maybe it's not such a pain with the stirrers and other equipment, but I went with 2-part for ease of use.

Ya with the stirrer I just scoop it in, leave the ATO off for 2 hrs or so when I add new kalk, but other than that the stirrer mixes it so you get the max kalk in the water. Not a pressure system and the ATO feeds into the bottom, so it does stir up the kalk but it never adds enough so the cloudy water gets t the outflow and settles by the next time the topoff kicks on

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ya with the stirrer I just scoop it in, leave the ATO off for 2 hrs or so when I add new kalk, but other than that the stirrer mixes it so you get the max kalk in the water. Not a pressure system and the ATO feeds into the bottom, so it does stir up the kalk but it never adds enough so the cloudy water gets t the outflow and settles by the next time the topoff kicks on

I'm not a fan of stirrers for several reasons, and certainly time saving is not an inherent advantage of them. I made up a big batch of limewater (144 gallons in Brute cans) once every 30-60 days, and that took 15 minutes. It was then autodosed by my ATO for the next 46-60 days.

IMO, the only advantage of stirrers is the space savings.

Drawbacks include difficulty controlling potency, and the fact that it is not settled in the same way to reduce impurities.