Tabk cycling

[Michael Price]

I recently got my 92g corner tank up and running. Exactly 10 days ago I started the cycle. I added about 1.5 ppm ammonia (pure cleaning ammonia) and a filter from my existing 10g tank to add the bb. First 5 days were perfect. Ammonia nearly gone, nitrites going to nitrates and so on. Day 6 it all stopped. Had to dilute tank to 1/8 of the nitrite test to be able to read it. It was about 15 to 20 ppm nitrite. A day later, no change. I did a large water change since the nitrite had killed all bb being that high in concentration. 2 days after that water change, I did a 50% because nitrites were still unreadable. Right now, nitrites are at 2 ppm. I've added in media, sand, and rocks from established tanks. I also added in a bottle of fritz turbo start. I know I'm being impatient, but something seems off. I've got a fish coming in next weekend and really need to get this right. What can I do? What if I add prime and put a cardinal fish in there?

Current parameters: ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrite:2 ppm
Nitrate: 40 ppm
Temp :79 degrees F
Salinity: 1.024

 

[Jedi1199]

OK, couple questions...

1: Why do you think the nitrites killed the beneficial bacteria? The fact you have nitrites at all says right there the that the bacteria are present and accounted for and doing what they are supposed to... converting ammonia into nitrites. A whole different bacteria converts the nitrites into nitrates.

2: Why are you doing water changes during the cycle? ESPECIALLY large ones.

3: Why do you have fish already en route? Your cycle isn't finished yet!

YES, you are being impatient. IDK what fish you have ordered or how many, but IMHO you are taking a gamble. Your fish may survive, but they will very likely be quite unhappy for a while.

 

[Michael Price]

OK, couple questions...

1: Why do you think the nitrites killed the beneficial bacteria? The fact you have nitrites at all says right there the that the bacteria are present and accounted for and doing what they are supposed to... converting ammonia into nitrites. A whole different bacteria converts the nitrites into nitrates.

2: Why are you doing water changes during the cycle? ESPECIALLY large ones.

3: Why do you have fish already en route? Your cycle isn't finished yet!

YES, you are being impatient. IDK what fish you have ordered or how many, but IMHO you are taking a gamble. Your fish may survive, but they will very likely be quite unhappy for a while.

I think the bacteria died because the tank was cycling at a good rate then just stopped. The nitrite was super high. I understand doing a waterchange is a no go, but how else was I suppose to lower the nitrites.

I am not the one that ordered the fish. My friend paid for it without me knowing. I can call the fish store and see if they can delay a couple weeks, but they don't always cooperate.

 

[jaganshi066]

OK, couple questions...

1: Why do you think the nitrites killed the beneficial bacteria? The fact you have nitrites at all says right there the that the bacteria are present and accounted for and doing what they are supposed to... converting ammonia into nitrites. A whole different bacteria converts the nitrites into nitrates.

2: Why are you doing water changes during the cycle? ESPECIALLY large ones.

3: Why do you have fish already en route? Your cycle isn't finished yet!

YES, you are being impatient. IDK what fish you have ordered or how many, but IMHO you are taking a gamble. Your fish may survive, but they will very likely be quite unhappy for a while.

Lol humble opinion is in caps

 

[Jedi1199]

I think the bacteria died because the tank was cycling at a good rate then just stopped. The nitrite was super high. I understand doing a waterchange is a no go, but how else was I suppose to lower the nitrites.

I am not the one that ordered the fish. My friend paid for it without me knowing. I can call the fish store and see if they can delay a couple weeks, but they don't always cooperate.

The nitrites are super high because the bacterial colonies that break them down into nitrates have not grown enough to do that yet. It is a process. By doing a large water change, you have actually slowed down what you were hoping to speed up.

I would definitely contact the vendor and try to delay shipment for at least several weeks. In the meantime, turn the lights off and leave the tank alone. Let nature take its course.

 

[Jedi1199]

Lol humble opinion is in caps

IMHO= In My Honest Opinion

 

[brandon429]

Your cycle is done, and no bac were killed. Source: all api and Red Sea test misread posts, and Dr Reefs bottle bac thread showing Fritz to be 24 hour bac

you met legit submersion times we aren’t rushing, youve met the dates on the bac label for wait time. Change your water and begin, as we study here:

How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

non digital ammonia test kit readings (api, Red Sea, nyos, seachem badges) make you think you aren’t cycled when indeed you are if you owned a $200 expensive seneye meter, you’d never be doubting your cycle status. since .01% of the reefing population owns these, we need a way to help the...

www.reef2reef.com

I didn’t want you to think we’d just pop in random threads and claim they’re all cycled. An entire work thread above is focused on showing why # of days underwater is a big deal on cycling charts


youve met the ammonia control line # of days wait from a cycling chart. two types of bottle bac known to work in ten days have been added and fed, see it’s not far off the mark.

 

[Michael Price]

The nitrites are super high because the bacterial colonies that break them down into nitrates have not grown enough to do that yet. It is a process. By doing a large water change, you have actually slowed down what you were hoping to speed up.

I would definitely contact the vendor and try to delay shipment for at least several weeks. In the meantime, turn the lights off and leave the tank alone. Let nature take its course.

When I did my first water change. Nitrates were over 100 ppm. Nitrites were being processed and rather quickly.

Does turning the lights off help with cycling?

 

[jaganshi066]

IMHO= In My Honest Opinion

Oh I’ve seen both but thank you!!!

 

[brandon429]

Answers to top questions


you have no free ammonia, don’t add prime. A free ammonia tank is gray water from excess dissolved waste and blooms, and it smells bad


ill bet this reef is clear and smells ok

if you add some prime anyway, it causes false ammonia reads on test kits and you’ll be doubly fine, but unable to see it on a test. As long as you have rocks and sand for attachment you’ve met the criteria from the bottle bac. Nothing you can do from now on makes you not cycled, it only messes with your test kits further and you can see above they work better when ran on clean water, not waste water.

 

[Jedi1199]

Your cycle is done, and no bac were killed. Source: all api and Red Sea test misread posts, and Dr Reefs bottle bac thread showing Fritz to be 24 hour bac

you met legit submersion times we aren’t rushing, youve met the dates on the bac label for wait time. Change your water and begin, as we study here:

How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

non digital ammonia test kit readings (api, Red Sea, nyos, seachem badges) make you think you aren’t cycled when indeed you are if you owned a $200 expensive seneye meter, you’d never be doubting your cycle status. since .01% of the reefing population owns these, we need a way to help the...

www.reef2reef.com

In my short time on this forum, I have learned to recognize Brandon429 as the forum authority on tank cycling. I defer to his authority and will now politely bow out of this topic.

 

[Neffly4u]

Having done the Fritz turbo start cycle, I would avoid adding any new bacteria (like prime) other than the turbostart and add your fish in. The Fritz needs ammonia to keep productive so the sooner you can get a fish in there the better. since your ammonia is gone and it all has trickled down to nitrate then your tank is cycled. Be cautious and go slow with fish input as to not add too much bio load while the bacteria continues to populate.

 

[jaganshi066]

In my short time on this forum, I have learned to recognize Brandon429 as the forum authority on tank cycling. I defer to his authority and will now politely bow out of this topic.

Can you help me cycle my new tank @brandon429, I used dr Tim’s one and only bacteria for my last tank, does fritz work better and faster?

 

[brandon429]

be sure and give the thread link above a good read we can chat about it for sure

that describes all steps using tank examples/ saves retype

the entire point is that if you add two strains of bottle bac to a tank, you’re guaranteed to be cycled in 10 days on any mix because no way could you buy two dead bottles from different brands. By default at least one sticks, and none take longer than ten days to run except brightwell its testing slow. Combined with a little feed and a wait time of ten or more days, change out water and any reef is cycled in the mix above even if you use no testing at all. The dosing, feed, wait 10-15 days change water cycles all rocks and sand that sat with it, and none will fail to be ready and that’s all on a cycling chart well before our thread. That is the intended takeaway from that thread above.

the only rational fear about bottle bac is that it’s dead from poor storage and handing not that it works in general. Adding two separate strains eliminates the risk of the dreaded dead bottle, a large combined dose of filter bac has been added here so we are all set as long as rocks and sand are present
we would change water on the date the directions say it’s ready, and it will be.

one dose of bac per directions, one feeding or ammonia run, 10-15 days wait change water = cycled.

 

[Azedenkae]

I recently got my 92g corner tank up and running. Exactly 10 days ago I started the cycle. I added about 1.5 ppm ammonia (pure cleaning ammonia) and a filter from my existing 10g tank to add the bb. First 5 days were perfect. Ammonia nearly gone, nitrites going to nitrates and so on. Day 6 it all stopped. Had to dilute tank to 1/8 of the nitrite test to be able to read it. It was about 15 to 20 ppm nitrite. A day later, no change. I did a large water change since the nitrite had killed all bb being that high in concentration. 2 days after that water change, I did a 50% because nitrites were still unreadable. Right now, nitrites are at 2 ppm. I've added in media, sand, and rocks from established tanks. I also added in a bottle of fritz turbo start. I know I'm being impatient, but something seems off. I've got a fish coming in next weekend and really need to get this right. What can I do? What if I add prime and put a cardinal fish in there?

Current parameters: ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrite:2 ppm
Nitrate: 40 ppm
Temp :79 degrees F
Salinity: 1.024

Hi Michael, can I ask whether you continued to dose ammonia after the first initial dose, and if you did, when you would dose ammonia?

 

[Michael Price]

Hi Michael, can I ask whether you continued to dose ammonia after the first initial dose, and if you did, when you would dose ammonia?

Only does the one time

 

[Michael Price]

be sure and give the thread link above a good read we can chat about it for sure

that describes all steps using tank examples/ saves retype

the entire point is that if you add two strains of bottle bac to a tank, you’re guaranteed to be cycled in 10 days on any mix because no way could you buy two dead bottles from different brands. By default at least one sticks, and none take longer than ten days to run except brightwell its testing slow. Combined with a little feed and a wait time of ten or more days, change out water and any reef is cycled in the mix above even if you use no testing at all. The dosing, feed, wait 10-15 days change water cycles all rocks and sand that sat with it, and none will fail to be ready and that’s all on a cycling chart well before our thread. That is the intended takeaway from that thread above.

the only rational fear about bottle bac is that it’s dead from poor storage and handing not that it works in general. Adding two separate strains eliminates the risk of the dreaded dead bottle, a large combined dose of filter bac has been added here so we are all set as long as rocks and sand are present
we would change water on the date the directions say it’s ready, and it will be.

one dose of bac per directions, one feeding or ammonia run, 10-15 days wait change water = cycled.

Didn't add the bottled bacteria till day 9 though. Still have nitrites reading 2 ppm

 

[Michael Price]

Answers to top questions


you have no free ammonia, don’t add prime. A free ammonia tank is gray water from excess dissolved waste and blooms, and it smells bad


ill bet this reef is clear and smells ok

if you add some prime anyway, it causes false ammonia reads on test kits and you’ll be doubly fine, but unable to see it on a test. As long as you have rocks and sand for attachment you’ve met the criteria from the bottle bac. Nothing you can do from now on makes you not cycled, it only messes with your test kits further and you can see above they work better when ran on clean water, not waste water.

Tank I'd clean, clear and free of any nasty smell. Only thing is, I still have 2ppm nitrite. Isn't that toxic to fish? Or at least unhealthy?

 

[Azedenkae]

Only does the one time

So it sounds like your nitrites would be coming from some other source. By that I don't necessary mean it has to be producing nitrite directly, but could also be for example ammonia was produced at a really high level for example, which could have still been oxidized by your ammonia-oxidizers, but then not oxidized to nitrate quickly enough by your nitrite-oxidizers. Was there anything that changed just before day 6? Any potential anything that could be decomposing in the tank?

Also, make sure you shake your bottles, etc. etc. carefully before testing. I presume you are using the API tests just because, well, that's super common and your readings sound like they come off of API tests. Some people say they do not trust the tests, but I have had no issue with them. They are not precise, but they are accurate, so long as the instructions are followed to a tee, I find.

Tank I'd clean, clear and free of any nasty smell. Only thing is, I still have 2ppm nitrite. Isn't that toxic to fish? Or at least unhealthy?

For freshwater fish, yes. For saltwater fish, long term maybe, and generally at much higher concentrations than 2ppm. Short term, no. I never thought that to be the case until I stumbled upon this article: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php

It sounded... a bit too good to be true? But this is a proper article, even if not peer-reviewed, and I read through the peer-reviewed articles it linked and yeah, fair enough. I also independently found peer-reviewed studies to support what was stated, so now I do believe nitrites has to be much, much higher to harm a lot of saltwater fish.

 

[Michael Price]

So it sounds like your nitrites would be coming from some other source. By that I don't necessary mean it has to be producing nitrite directly, but could also be for example ammonia was produced at a really high level for example, which could have still been oxidized by your ammonia-oxidizers, but then not oxidized to nitrate quickly enough by your nitrite-oxidizers. Was there anything that changed just before day 6? Any potential anything that could be decomposing in the tank?

Also, make sure you shake your bottles, etc. etc. carefully before testing. I presume you are using the API tests just because, well, that's super common and your readings sound like they come off of API tests. Some people say they do not trust the tests, but I have had no issue with them. They are not precise, but they are accurate, so long as the instructions are followed to a tee, I find.

For freshwater fish, yes. For saltwater fish, long term maybe, and generally at much higher concentrations than 2ppm. Short term, no. I never thought that to be the case until I stumbled upon this article: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php

It sounded... a bit too good to be true? But this is a proper article, even if not peer-reviewed, and I read through the peer-reviewed articles it linked and yeah, fair enough. I also independently found peer-reviewed studies to support what was stated, so now I do believe nitrites has to be much, much higher to harm a lot of saltwater fish.

I dont think nitrite is being actively produced at this time. When I started the tank, it was dry rock that had been cleaned well, sand that was never meant for an aquarium and rodi water. Nothing in my filtration system has been producing nitrite either as none could. Nothing changed (that I could notice) before it stalled on day 6. Nothing is decomposing in the tank. I'm very certain of that

When I do my tests, I do exactly as the instructions say, no deviation. And yes it is api.