Taking advice from manufacturers and reps ONLY if they have nice tanks?

[WillH]

I live this topic! It’s Easy to read the internet and watch YouTube and spew a bunch of things that make sense to unknowing person, but I want to see results. I’m sure there are exceptions, but unless I have standing relationship with someone I’d rather do research. I Don’t mind getting information to help me get going in A direction though?

 

[Proteus Meep]

Personally i never take advice from one single source regardless of their own system or lack of....i prefer to research and correlate the information of the community's experience's as a whole to reach a course of action or decision

 

[andrewkw]

Ideally yes, but some of these people are dead inside and it's just become a job to them. Ask fish store owners if they have tanks at home and lots will say no.

 

[NanoDJS]

Well I definitely only take advice from people who have results I'm striving for whereas it's always been a conundrum in the reefing hobby that there are all these gurus who everyone points to who literally don't have one shot of their tank up ever on any forum makes you wonder

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

This guy @Terence knows a little bit about what he's doing as you can see here.

I saw that he made a statement that I really can agree with and so I thought we should discuss it today. When taking advice from people it's nice to know they actually know what they are talking about and have the proof to prove it that often times show in how they can grow their own reef. But what about companies, businesses, manufacturers etc?

So the question is this: Do you only take advice from manufacturers and reps who have nice tanks?

In Terence's case, I would weigh his comments on the merit of his position. If he's pushing his product, my mind immediately switches to an objective position that of which you would have with a used car salesman. He can show me pictures of his tank all day long and the only thing that would be running through my mind is "what's his marketing angle?"

What I'm trying to say is, most people will view his post from a hobbyist perspective and take it at face value saying, "ahh yeah, he's got a good point". But whether it's true or not, I would dissect it and figure out his angle.

Definitely not singling out Terence, you used him as an example, it's only fitting to continue with it.

I don't agree with the "show me your tank" as a measuring stick for success on a particular product or information, nor does it validate or dismiss the person giving the advice.

To answer the question, if I would take advice from a manufacturer or a rep? No more, no less than any other. in fact depending on what they are advising, I may dismiss it altogether as a ploy to push their product.

 

[ca1ore]

I generally don't take advice from manufacturers/reps …. even those that have nice tanks! FWIW, the comment about only taking advice from folks that can maintain a nice tank originates, as far as I know, with David Saxby in the 1990s. Probably was more true then than now.

 

[Greybeard]

Dr Tim Hovanec... I would have no idea if he even owns a marine aquarium, and it wouldn't make any difference if he didn't. He's an expert in nitrifying bacteria. I'm not looking to him for reefing advice, but bacteriological information, and he's at the top of the field.

Talked to Steve Bashi at ReefPalooza last year. His concepts in sump design were very interesting. The high quality manufacturing techniques and materials he uses... it was a very good discussion, I enjoyed it very much.

Also spoke at length with Julian Sprung. Awesome conversation. Talked at length about Mangroves, something he's been working with for decades. I have no idea if he even owns an aquarium.

Doesn't matter.

Now... if a coral supplement distributor is giving advice on coloring up SPS corals, I want to see some tanks using their products. Sure.

 

[Peace River]

I’m a “no”. The appearance of a vendor’s display tank (or even personal tank) is one of many factors. Additionally, neither the customer service person nor the sales rep may be the person taking care of the company’s tank.

 

[mrlavalamp]

Now... if a coral supplement distributor is giving advice on coloring up SPS corals, I want to see some tanks using their products. Sure.

But how far can you trust someone trying to sell you something? No matter how much "research" they do, or they pay to have done, the results will never be trustworthy to me because this person is running a business. Sure, they may get some bad reviews and eventually their product/company reviews will reveal that they are using false methods or that their products are no good.

How long will that take though? And if the majority of users are not scientific enough in their approaches/use, it would be hard to link their problem to that one item not performing over others.

Third party analysis for additives and the like would be valuable, but only from a reputable third party. It would at least verify that what they are saying they are selling is truly that.

 

[Bruce Burnett]

I look at what the manufacturer is selling what testing they have done. What their warranty is and the dollar value. I also look at third party testing and the reviews of actual users. The first time I purchased Orphek Atlantiks it was based on recommendations of two well know names in the hobby. This was like 7 years ago. But never based on their own tanks

 

[Dan Watson]

Business side of this hobby knows 3 words “SELL SELL SELL” despite whether their product is a good fit for your tanks situation. Its about making money and very few retailers and mfer’s have great knowledge of their products best purpose. Id be surprised to find out half of the reps out there own a tank, let alone a reef tank.
Advice from the internet is also often skewed and misleading. Most reefers arent life long marine biologists studied in the reefing field despite what they’ll make you believe. They have an idea, but every circumstance is different, and even from experience, I can promise i see something new every day.
Bottom line, do a little research, make sure its a pliable fit for you, then give it a go. record your results and share them with proper science behind it, even if its only observational or some cheap test kit. I could give 100 examples of times I thought i was doing the right thing after researching and studying only to find myself stumped or defeated.
Nobody will care more about or be more observant of your personal tank than you will. Make every mistake count and more importantly, share your results with an open mind. A lot of reef keeping is still quite mysterious and the norm often isnt normal at all. Buyer beware, redundancy, and science are our best bets at maintaining your ideal reef and sharing is the best way to purvey your knowledge. So keep on reefin and stay in touch.

 

[65Naja]

My "No" response. I see the majority of manufactured products only contribute a low percentage to the overall success of a tank, and are by no means the sole reason the tank would look good or bad. I take into consideration what contribution the product plays, obviously what the advise is (related to the product or the overall strategy). For the products Terence markets, Yes showing his tank speaks to the role / contribution the product has to the overall success. For a single product like UV sterilizer, a skimmer, a media reactor its more about the products design intent / proper use and expected outcomes.

 

[MJC]

Take advice from guys who have longevity with nice tanks and real life experience, not someone who is getting paid to say it works good.

 

[Entz]

Depends. As a general rule I don't trust vendors. As mentioned who knows how "real" the tanks are (outsourced, setup just for PR) or heck if they even use their own products or maybe they just killed all their fish two days ago and replaced them just in time for the shoot.

That said, if you have been following along with someone, have seen their tanks progress and you reasonable trust what they say then that is fine. but products always with a grain of salt, too much buying/sponsoring of reviews.

For example, to pick on Terrance, I would never trust what he says about Neptune stuff. but if he started talking about 2 part or dosing or food or whatever then I would absolutely trust that. You cannot argue with the amazing results he has with his tank. But that is also him outside of Neptune if that makes sense.

 

[Dana Riddle]

How do you know it is actually their tank? I remember years ago seeing a website pitching a product with a familar looking tank of a forum reefer. I told him I saw his tank and he had no idea they were using his picture.

Years ago, I saw a company using photos of one of the tanks I was maintaining. On the other hand, there is a reputable company that publishes photos of ailing corals, although there products are quite capable of maintaining thriving corals, Makes sense though, they are engineers, not marine biologists and their products are good, they just don't know how to use them.

 

[tnyr5]

I seek advice from those who have consistently had nice tanks in the past, even if their current tank is having issues.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Advice from the internet is also often skewed and misleading. Most reefers arent life long marine biologists studied in the reefing field despite what they’ll make you believe. They have an idea, but every circumstance is different, and even from experience, I can promise i see something new every day.

^^This!!! Any time I read that someone did their research, I know all they did was type in the search bar, read opinions, and made a decision. You can't measure one product against another by using a rubber ruler.

I think there needs to be a 3rd party non profit group that's willing to objectively provide data driven information to the consumer so that we can make educated decisions.

 

[CenlaReefer]

I guess I do not get to see the tanks of manufacturers and reps in person ever. Still, I do not take much advice from a LFS if the tanks are funky.

 

[mikeintoronto]

To me, many products do the same thing no matter the manufacturer. It just becomes preference. For example, I’m sure there are better manufacturers than Neptune but the Neptune stuff is native to the controller so if something goes wrong, it’s easier to resolve. I don’t necessarily “trust” Neptune but everything is “good enough”.
There are some really bad products out there but for the most part most do their job. That’s why a lot of old timers use equipment (or lack of) that make the newbs cringe. But it’s good enough and it works for them. It’s more about the method than the equipment; method beats fancy equipment.
It reminds me of Holden’s roommate, Stradlater, in The Catcher in the Rye. He’s very handsome to look at but what he does to get there isn’t so pretty.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

I have appreciated companies that feature customers tanks using their products. I even visited one in Thailand featured here on R2R. Very nice man and an expert in my experience with coral and fish. Just a lovely experience and very informative. He was using Tunze protein skimmers, UV sterelizer, and NoPox at a very high level of success. As a potential customer for those products it made an impression on me!

Not all customer experience is positive but the proof is in the pudding as the old saying goes. When you see a multiply of positive results I think that indicates a good possible product. Remember not everyone is willing to follow the manufacturer recommendations just like some people don't follow a doctor's orders and them blame them for a bad outcome!