Tanaka Pygmy Wrasse Passed Away

[adromero]

Yesterday morning, I found my Tanaka Pygmy Wrasse dead. I had him for over a year and he swam and fed well. All other fish were doing fine. Last night, my Royal Gramma was trying to jump out. Luckily I have a cover. However, he was on the sand bed and gasping. At the time, I was doing my nightly dosing. I follow the Red Sea recipe for a reefer 170. When I saw the fish On the sand bed , I quickly turned on my skimmer. Within an hour, the fish was fine and this morning he was back to normal. Also, I had issues with fish in this tank before. Last August, five of fish mysteriously died overnight. Does this sound like an issue with oxygen, or could it be dosing? All my parameters are good. Sometimes my slkalinity goes below eight.

 

[evolved]

Definitely sounds like an O2 issue. How much surface agitation is there? Do you struggle to maintain a decent pH as well?

 

[adromero]

After my incident in August, I have a lot of surface agitation. However, my ph will drop below 7 at times. Usually at night.

 

[evolved]

my ph will drop below 7 at times. Usually at night.

Below 7?!?! How is that being measured? That's super low, if anywhere near correct. Which makes me think there's quite the lack of fresh O2 in the room itself, and likely your CO2 level is very high.
What space is the tank located in? How often does that room get fresh air?

 

[adromero]

Below 7?!?! How is that being measured? That's super low, if anywhere near correct. Which makes me think there's quite the lack of fresh O2 in the room itself, and likely your CO2 level is very high.
What space is the tank located in? How often does that room get fresh air?

I use API for ph. I could never get consistent readings with the Hanna probe.
The tank is near the kitchen area. I noticed this problem in the summer when we rarely open windows because of the A/C. I live pretty far inland in Southern California and it gets very warm. Do you think more fresh air will help and would you know why this happens when I dose. It is 34 gallon Red Sea reefer and I dose 5 ml NoPox, 1.5 ml magnesium, 12 ml alkalinity and 5 ml calcium. I use all Red Sea products and I space the dosing products at least 10 minutes apart.

 

[Tamberav]

Nopox can decrease oxygen so thats probably your issue. It feeds bacteria which multiply to eat nutrients but they also use oxygen. Bam, pH issues and dead fish. Especially with the skimmer off.

 

[evolved]

I use API for ph.

Okay, so not necessary the most accurate reading then. But likely still on the low side.

I noticed this problem in the summer when we rarely open windows because of the A/C. I live pretty far inland in Southern California and it gets very warm. Do you think more fresh air will help

I'm in Phoenix; it's supposed to be 115F today, so I do understand. But yes - some fresh air exchange if/when it makes sense in the room would help a bit. However:

and would you know why this happens when I dose. It is 34 gallon Red Sea reefer and I dose 5 ml NoPox

Nopox can decrease oxygen so thats probably your issue. It feeds bacteria which multiply to eat nutrients but they also use oxygen. Bam, pH issues and dead fish. Especially with the skimmer off.

+1 here.
That alone might be the source of your issue.

 

[adromero]

Okay, so not necessary the most accurate reading then. But likely still on the low side.

I'm in Phoenix; it's supposed to be 115F today, so I do understand. But yes - some fresh air exchange if/when it makes sense in the room would help a bit. However:


+1 here.
That alone might be the source of your issue.

Thank you for your help

 

[adromero]

Nopox can decrease oxygen so thats probably your issue. It feeds bacteria which multiply to eat nutrients but they also use oxygen. Bam, pH issues and dead fish. Especially with the skimmer off.

Thanks for your help. Should I dose NoPox earlier in the day?

 

[Tamberav]

Thanks for your help. Should I dose NoPox earlier in the day?

Probably better to while lights are on but honestly not sure how long the bacteria stay 'ramped up'. I would leave the skimmer on 24/7 with nopox.

Personally I would just address the underlying issue and not rely on carbon dosing.

 

[minus9]

Just chiming in here. First, sorry for your loss, I love wetmorella's. Your skimmer should be on 24/7 and I would probably look into using a CO2 scrubber attached to the air intake, which will give your O2 a boost, mainly aiding in driving down CO2. Any carbon dosing should take place just before or soon after your lights turn on for the day. As mentioned above, bacteria are great consumers of O2, so anything to up your O2 will help. It's not necessary, but maybe look into a pH monitor or better yet, just a quality test kit. Another option is a pH pen or similar. I know some reefers turn their skimmers off to help raise nutrients, but there are so many other ways of raising nutrients that are better and less harmful.
Are you using nopox for nutrient control? If so, what are your levels for NO3 & PO4? How many fish? What are feeding and how much? Sorry, I could keep asking more questions, but we'll stick with these.
I'm in SoCal, so you can pm me and I'll try to help as much as I can.
Again, sorry for your loss. Stay cool, it's freak'n hot out here now.

 

[adromero]

Just chiming in here. First, sorry for your loss, I love wetmorella's. Your skimmer should be on 24/7 and I would probably look into using a CO2 scrubber attached to the air intake, which will give your O2 a boost, mainly aiding in driving down CO2. Any carbon dosing should take place just before or soon after your lights turn on for the day. As mentioned above, bacteria are great consumers of O2, so anything to up your O2 will help. It's not necessary, but maybe look into a pH monitor or better yet, just a quality test kit. Another option is a pH pen or similar. I know some reefers turn their skimmers off to help raise nutrients, but there are so many other ways of raising nutrients that are better and less harmful.
Are you using nopox for nutrient control? If so, what are your levels for NO3 & PO4? How many fish? What are feeding and how much? Sorry, I could keep asking more questions, but we'll stick with these.
I'm in SoCal, so you can pm me and I'll try to help as much as I can.
Again, sorry for your loss. Stay cool, it's freak'n hot out here now.

I appreciate your help. My nitrates are near zero, but phosphates are around .20. I have two ocellaris, royal gramma, Firefish, mandarin goby, neon goby and a shrimp goby with a candy pistol. I feed mysis and pellets once a day. I also use 5 ml of Red Sea coral nutrition a and b once a day. My system does not have a sump. It I is a Red Sea reefer 170 AIO. I do have the kit to add a sump. Would it be a good idea to add the sump? I never added the sump because my corals do so well, but always struggled with fish in this system. This system has been running for nearly three years. On a side note in my 10 year 70 gallon system I can only grow soft corals and some LPS, but my fish thrive. However, that would be a discussion for another thread.

I joined this forum a year ago and people here are the best.

 

[minus9]

Adding the sump would benefit you in several ways. First, adding water volume to your system. Also, the cascading water flow to the sump is another way to add oxygen. You can add a better skimmer, most hob skimmers lack volume and are bulky for what they do and you'll notice improvements in skimming with an internal skimmer.
Mysis and pellets will increase your PO4, especially if you're not rinsing the crap out of the mysis? If you have a LFS near you that sells LRS food, I would make the switch to the nano frenzy, no rinsing necessary and it is a much better food IMO. I would also stop nopox and switch to Tropic Marin Elimi NP. It's concentrated, but it's designed to work with lowering phosphates. I believe nopox targets both, which isn't good in your case. You mentioned near zero nitrates? If you're detecting even a small amount, then that's ok, but if you're not registering anything, that could be a serious issue.
I would stop adding fish for now and really concentrate on stabilizing your parameters first. Have you sent in an ICP to see if anything shows up? I really like ATI, especially the added RO water test, but Triton ICP is much faster, especially for us in SoCal. Are you doing water changes? What salt and how much/often?
Sorry, there's always more questions, but liked I mentioned earlier, start by adding the sump, it will make you life a little easier. Oh, you can add a small refugium in there as well, I think? I'm not too familiar with their sumps.

 

[adromero]

Adding the sump would benefit you in several ways. First, adding water volume to your system. Also, the cascading water flow to the sump is another way to add oxygen. You can add a better skimmer, most hob skimmers lack volume and are bulky for what they do and you'll notice improvements in skimming with an internal skimmer.
Mysis and pellets will increase your PO4, especially if you're not rinsing the crap out of the mysis? If you have a LFS near you that sells LRS food, I would make the switch to the nano frenzy, no rinsing necessary and it is a much better food IMO. I would also stop nopox and switch to Tropic Marin Elimi NP. It's concentrated, but it's designed to work with lowering phosphates. I believe nopox targets both, which isn't good in your case. You mentioned near zero nitrates? If you're detecting even a small amount, then that's ok, but if you're not registering anything, that could be a serious issue.
I would stop adding fish for now and really concentrate on stabilizing your parameters first. Have you sent in an ICP to see if anything shows up? I really like ATI, especially the added RO water test, but Triton ICP is much faster, especially for us in SoCal. Are you doing water changes? What salt and how much/often?
Sorry, there's always more questions, but liked I mentioned earlier, start by adding the sump, it will make you life a little easier. Oh, you can add a small refugium in there as well, I think? I'm not too familiar with their sumps.

Thanks again for your help. I will look for LRS nano frenzy and look for the Marin product. I may be hitting zero nitrates, but I use API to test nitrates. I didn’t really care for the salifert kit. Also, it is a 34 gallon and I do 5 gallon water changes twice a week with Red Sea coral pro salt. I mix the water myself. Salinity is usually at 1.026.

 

[minus9]

Thanks again for your help. I will look for LRS nano frenzy and look for the Marin product. I may be hitting zero nitrates, but I use API to test nitrates. I didn’t really care for the salifert kit. Also, it is a 34 gallon and I do 5 gallon water changes twice a week with Red Sea coral pro salt. I mix the water myself. Salinity is usually at 1.026.

Red Sea pro nitrate test is pretty good.