Tang Aggression - Understanding and Combating

[4FordFamily]

Question...I have had a Gold Rim for a few years but removed him to a frag tank about 3 weeks ago. My plan was to introduce a yellow tang and a bristle tooth tang to the DT and let them get settled in for several weeks. How long will it take the Gold Rim to "forget" the DT. That is, be the newcomer instead of the established tang. Any chance this will work?'

Not sure he will ever forget, they remember like elephants (acanthurus tangs). That said, it may still work. So many questions and possible results, but unless he’s a complete jerk it will probably be fine if he’s added to the other two once they’re established.

 

[saltyhog]

Thank's! Wow, I never dreamed they could remember their past that well. I'll give them a month or so to settle in and then be prepared to intervene if needed.

 

[4FordFamily]

Thank's! Wow, I never dreamed they could remember their past that well. I'll give them a month or so to settle in and then be prepared to intervene if needed.

I view it as them holding grudges about fish and it’s more about changing behavior than memory. If they’re accustomed to fighting off successfully (only tang) other tangs, and or are actually chasing other tangs they can be added back months later only to resume the exact same behavior. I’ve seen it a lot and only with the more aggressive acanthurus, namely powder blue, brown, goldrim, and Achilles.

An alternative is to set them in a neutral QT tank together, it’s new to all of them and they become acquainted and when reunited to the tank it’s less likely to be problematic.

 

[jaxteller007]

Tang Aggression - Understanding and Combating
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My list is this: (I'm only ranking tangs

1) Powder Blue
2) Powder Brown
3) Sohal (increasingly nasty with size)
4) Clown (increasingly nasty with size)
5) Achilles (some are docile but the nasty are up there with PBT)
6) Purple
7) Yellow
8) Goldrim/ White Cheek
9) Scopas
10) Gem
11) Kole (increasingly nasty with size)
12) Sailfin
13) Atlantic blue
14) Desjardini Sailfin
15) Hippo & YB Hippo
16) Tomini Tang
17) Chevron
18) Orange Shoulder
19) Convict Tang
20) Blonde Naso
21) Naso

A lot of variance exists between species, this is just my experience and observations over the years with other peers and kin I interact with or see them and their tanks frequently.

I hope this is helpful.

We recently upgraded to a 180 and have started stocking up. Now we have a foxface, dahardini sailfin (I know i butchered the spelling), and a PBT. The foxface and sailfin went in about a month ago and the PBT today. Not the ideal order I'm sure. The good thing is all 3 came from the same QT system and already spent time together. Not sure who the tank boss is yet, the foxface is the larger of them right now. It's fun to watch but the fox and sailfin pal around together all day.

I'd love to add like 2 more tangs down the road but it seems like that may be hard with having a PBT in there establishing himself now. I loveeee the LT tangs. Any ones you think could be added down the road? With precautions taken of course.

Oh and just my experience, but we've had good luck with the mirror thing. In fact today we put a large mirror up after adding the PBT and all 3 of them basically formed a train and would flash the whole length of the mirror, hide behind some rocks then come out and do it again. Was really neat to watch. At times they would almost look like they were huddled up deciding how to show those dang mirror fish who the bosses were haha..

 

[jaxteller007]

I should add... a blue hippo is out of the question (I have a vendetta against them haha) and we won't be be upgrading from this tank for a long time unless something drastic happens. It's a standard 6ft, 180 tank.

 

[4FordFamily]

We recently upgraded to a 180 and have started stocking up. Now we have a foxface, dahardini sailfin (I know i butchered the spelling), and a PBT. The foxface and sailfin went in about a month ago and the PBT today. Not the ideal order I'm sure. The good thing is all 3 came from the same QT system and already spent time together. Not sure who the tank boss is yet, the foxface is the larger of them right now. It's fun to watch but the fox and sailfin pal around together all day.

I'd love to add like 2 more tangs down the road but it seems like that may be hard with having a PBT in there establishing himself now. I loveeee the LT tangs. Any ones you think could be added down the road? With precautions taken of course.

Oh and just my experience, but we've had good luck with the mirror thing. In fact today we put a large mirror up after adding the PBT and all 3 of them basically formed a train and would flash the whole length of the mirror, hide behind some rocks then come out and do it again. Was really neat to watch. At times they would almost look like they were huddled up deciding how to show those dang mirror fish who the bosses were haha..

It all depends — but acanthurus of different shape, and bristletooth tangs would be better bets, or a couple more zebrasoma added concurrently.

PBT are generally very nasty but I have had two or three over the years that were quite docile (don’t bank on that though haha) as they are individuals.

 

[jaxteller007]

It all depends — but acanthurus of different shape, and bristletooth tangs would be better bets, or a couple more zebrasoma added concurrently.

PBT are generally very nasty but I have had two or three over the years that were quite docile (don’t bank on that though haha) as they are individuals.

I didn't know convicts school. That would have been cool to do but I love our foxface and tangs right now. We've had good luck so far with our fish paling around. I think it helps that we get them from the same place so they have all spent time QT together before we ever get them.

 

[jaxteller007]

It all depends — but acanthurus of different shape, and bristletooth tangs would be better bets, or a couple more zebrasoma added concurrently.

PBT are generally very nasty but I have had two or three over the years that were quite docile (don’t bank on that though haha) as they are individuals.

When you say of a different shape, you mean the like body and fins? What are some that are different from the PBT?

 

[4FordFamily]

When you say of a different shape, you mean the like body and fins? What are some that are different from the PBT?

Yes, such as chocolate tang, clown tang (would prefer a tank larger, just another example), perhaps convict, etc

Same shape: Achilles, powder brown, gold rim.

 

[jaxteller007]

Yes, such as chocolate tang, clown tang (would prefer a tank larger, just another example), perhaps convict, etc

Same shape: Achilles, powder brown, gold rim.

Gotcha. Really appreciate all the information.

Good news is that everyone looked to be getting along this morning. The sailfin puffed out a couple times at the PBT while I was watching but they never hit each other and like 5 min later were munching at the same algea sheet.

Bad news, it looks like even a 180 is not big enough for 2 small bicolor blennys. One of them this morning is in rough shape, the other looks perfect. Gonna try and pickup some hidey hole type rocks today and see if that helps.

 

[4FordFamily]

Gotcha. Really appreciate all the information.

Good news is that everyone looked to be getting along this morning. The sailfin puffed out a couple times at the PBT while I was watching but they never hit each other and like 5 min later were munching at the same algea sheet.

Bad news, it looks like even a 180 is not big enough for 2 small bicolor blennys. One of them this morning is in rough shape, the other looks perfect. Gonna try and pickup some hidey hole type rocks today and see if that helps.

Blennies are more aggressive than people let alone— can be very territorial

 

[jaxteller007]

Blennies are more aggressive than people let alone— can be very territorial

We were only supposed to get one but the second one basically jumped into the net. Thought since they shared the same QT it might work... looks like that's a no :(]

 

[jaxteller007]

Blennies are more aggressive than people let alone— can be very territorial

Here's a couple shots of everyone today.

 

[4FordFamily]

Here's a couple shots of everyone today.

Looks great! Handsome fish!

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

The inhabitants of my "thunderdome" are getting nasty towards each other. There seems to be a battle going on between my desjardini and sohal. Both are in excess of 10" but the whole tank is seeming to suffer. The sohal was chasing my naso around today.. my naso is like that friendly guy that everyone loves.

I think the 240 is just too small for them. They are getting moved this weekend when I move into a new house. Not sure what the point of this is other than... even when many tangs seem to develop a pecking order... violence can break out.

 

[4FordFamily]

The inhabitants of my "thunderdome" are getting nasty towards each other. There seems to be a battle going on between my desjardini and sohal. Both are in excess of 10" but the whole tank is seeming to suffer. The sohal was chasing my naso around today.. my naso is like that friendly guy that everyone loves.

I think the 240 is just too small for them. They are getting moved this weekend when I move into a new house. Not sure what the point of this is other than... even when many tangs seem to develop a pecking order... violence can break out.

This is true, especially at large sizes and especially in tanks “not big enough for the two of us”. Ideally the naso would be the largest fish in the tank but they’re slow growers. My refereee is now a 9.5-10” dussumeiri tang. He’s quite docile but intimidates the other fish. The second largest is a 9 inch queen angel and 8.5” passer angel. The next largest tang is a 4.5” Sohal... so he has a way to go and the dussumeiri is an even faster grower so I hope he never catches up!

 

[OrionN]

I have not have the gut to try Clown and Sohal due to their reported aggressiveness, and their size. Any of the Naso due to their size. I keep Desjardini 30 years ago, but he out grew my 90 gal soooo quick that I have not attempt another one since.
I guess I like small fishes in my tank. Even with 420 and 320 gal tank, I am really hesitant to get these large tangs.

 

[4FordFamily]

I have not have the gut to try Clown and Sohal due to their reported aggressiveness, and their size. Any of the Naso due to their size. I keep Desjardini 30 years ago, but he out grew my 90 gal soooo quick that I have not attempt another one since.
I guess I like small fishes in my tank. Even with 420 and 320 gal tank, I am really hesitant to get these large tangs.

Yeah, they can be nasty. They tend to be nastier in the presence of fewer tangs or large/aggressive herbivores and get worse with age/size. Some aren't so bad, as a general rule.

I think your tanks look great!

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

My sohal has generally been pretty chill. When i put him in the tank he made it clear, very quickly that he was the boss. After moving them to a 240 gallon QT the desjardini started to remember that he is actually the biggest fish in the tank and so this is when things got kind of tricky. They are going into a 600 in a month or two so they should be able to all find a place to call their own.

 

[jaxteller007]

Lost our powder blue sometime last night. Woke up and he was dead at the bottom. Doesn't look beat up or anything. Tested the water and ph is maybe slightly low, and nitrates are slightly high.