Tang Dead, Microscope Autopsy. Help ID.

[SaltwaterGuruNeeded]

The vibrations of the tiny particles in these videos is the "Brownian motion" I mentioned. I also wonder sometimes if this motion isn't also caused by bacteria (too small to see) bumping into the large particles. In any event, I don't see any pathogens in these videos.

Jay

I am just really confused as to what might of killed him. I'm thinking the clowns are next. I am going to guess prazi resistant gill flukes based on my findings (1st picture in thread 100x gill). It wasn't moving but idk how long he was dead for as I woke up to him being blown around in the tank, or a 2nd guess would be a bacterial infection. I am so stumped. But at least if they pass, I'll be able to do my tank right and fallow, and when I start adding fish again, I'll quarantine them.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I don't see a fluke in the first image. Looks more like a broken/bent gill lamellae. Flukes drop off dead fish pretty quickly.

Jay

 

[SaltwaterGuruNeeded]

I don't see a fluke in the first image. Looks more like a broken/bent gill lamellae. Flukes drop off dead fish pretty quickly.

Jay

I guess I got a silent killer...Man this is aggravating. So if nothing was seen under the microscope...then maybe it's the water. But I doubt that. Maybe I can check for voltage. What about Dinoflagellates? I have good carbon running, maybe it's the toxins?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I understand you really want the microscope to work, but really, they are best used for identifying flukes and protozoans, nothing else.

Stray voltage won't kill fish.

I can't speak to dino toxins, never had to deal with it. Water changes will help with that. If you use carbon, be sure to use a high grade pelleted type.

Jay

 

[SaltwaterGuruNeeded]

I understand you really want the microscope to work, but really, they are best used for identifying flukes and protozoans, nothing else.

Stray voltage won't kill fish.

I can't speak to dino toxins, never had to deal with it. Water changes will help with that. If you use carbon, be sure to use a high grade pelleted type.

Jay

I am, thanks.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

Thank you. It is so weird. I dosed prazipro in tank 3 times to still have a fluke.

Jake Adams was discussing how he will no longer use liquid prazi because the very limited shelf life. He had the same issue. He uses a powder form now that is mixed with alcohol before dosing but shelf life is much longer.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Jake Adams was discussing how he will no longer use liquid prazi because the very limited shelf life. He had the same issue. He uses a powder form now that is mixed with alcohol before dosing but shelf life is much longer.

Oh - using ethanol to dose prazi is REALLY risky! You need to use the absolute least amount possible and aerate the heck out of the tank. What happens is that heterotrophic bacteria act on both the ethanol and the prazi, using oxygen in the process. If you use just a touch too much alcohol, the tank clouds up and the fish can asphyxiate.

Prazipro uses a glycol as a solvent. It has the same issue, but to a lesser degree. I've never found any shelf life issues with it, but I've also never had a bottle around longer than a year.

For my main systems, I use bulk praziquantel that I express through a fine mesh brine shrimp net, making a suspension.

The biggest issue with "failed" prazi treatments is due to two factors: 1) Neobenedenia eggs are not killed by prazi and they can take up to 30 days to hatch. 2) the bacteria I mentioned above get really good at consuming prazi. After a couple of treatments, the population is high enough to strip the prazi out of the water before it has time to work.


Jay

 

[SaltwaterGuruNeeded]

Oh - using ethanol to dose prazi is REALLY risky! You need to use the absolute least amount possible and aerate the heck out of the tank. What happens is that heterotrophic bacteria act on both the ethanol and the prazi, using oxygen in the process. If you use just a touch too much alcohol, the tank clouds up and the fish can asphyxiate.

Prazipro uses a glycol as a solvent. It has the same issue, but to a lesser degree. I've never found any shelf life issues with it, but I've also never had a bottle around longer than a year.

For my main systems, I use bulk praziquantel that I express through a fine mesh brine shrimp net, making a suspension.

The biggest issue with "failed" prazi treatments is due to two factors: 1) Neobenedenia eggs are not killed by prazi and they can take up to 30 days to hatch. 2) the bacteria I mentioned above get really good at consuming prazi. After a couple of treatments, the population is high enough to strip the prazi out of the water before it has time to work.


Jay

Do you suggest I do a 4th dose of prazi or no?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Do you suggest I do a 4th dose of prazi or no?

I've done it pretty routinely - four doses 7 to 10 days apart. This presumes a dose of 2.2 mg/l.

Jay

 

[SaltwaterGuruNeeded]

I've done it pretty routinely - four doses 7 to 10 days apart. This presumes a dose of 2.2 mg/l.

Jay

Ok, I'll do one more dose in a bit. Any way to save the carbon I put in?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ok, I'll do one more dose in a bit. Any way to save the carbon I put in?

Sorry, not sure what you mean by save the carbon?
Jay

 

[SaltwaterGuruNeeded]

Sorry, not sure what you mean by save the carbon?
Jay

Like, I have to take it out when I dose prazipro. Can I reuse the carbon in 72hrs?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Like, I have to take it out when I dose prazipro. Can I reuse the carbon in 72hrs?

Oh - sure, you can put it back. I’d rinse it with RODI when you pull it and store it damp.
Jay

 

[SaltwaterGuruNeeded]

Oh - sure, you can put it back. I’d rinse it with RODI when you pull it and store it damp.
Jay

Ok, I just used the hottest tap water I could to kill anything on the carbon in a bath. I guess I'll rinse with rodi and then store it in a container, after 72 hrs pass, then I can put it back in?

 

[Sean Clark]

I do not know what I am looking at, but this content is amazing. This is really interesting.

 

[DrZoidburg]

@Jay Hemdal Not think this some sort of fluke when same structures are on tail slide?

 

[DrZoidburg]

This lamella lifting yellow arrow. pic 1, pic 2 lamella number 9, pic 3 lamella numbers 1 and 2, Note much much smaller than your pictures. I don't think it is that. Pic 4 body fluke These come in many different shapes and sizes. As well do parasites, and other tiny worms. See also pic 4 next to visible bacteria. To be 100% correct yes I agree movement would be key to id this. Also a lot of them have eyes, of which not always easy to see.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal Not think this some sort of fluke when same structures are on tail slide?

I think they are just artifacts, the magnification is too high.
I use motion to ID flukes, they can be almost invisible until they twitch.
Another truism is - even if you find a single fluke after a thorough search, the fish may have flukes, but the number is too low to cause actual disease. I will of course treat if I see a single fluke, but I don’t worry about fish dying unless I see dozens of flukes in one sample.
Haptor/hook structures show up really well in some flukes, I didn’t see any here. I also look for eye spots to ID some species of fluke and turbellarians.
Jay

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

Wow. I feel like a terrible reefer. When my fish die, I flush and buy a new one.

 

[SaltwaterGuruNeeded]

Sorry if I'm bugging you but I just did a fw dip on my clowns because I noticed the female was darting here and there like She was getting bitten. So I took a sample of the water from the bottom of the fw dip container and I found these...trying to look for flukes/worms.

This one is the 400x one above but zoomed in 3x aswell with phone.

Goby seems fine though. I can't catch him anyways.