Tank crash, could this be the cause?

skinz78 · Oct 4, 2014

Recently I've experienced quite the tank crash, loosing all of my clams, most of my SPS and Zoa's and a few LPS's.

My reef went from this:

To this:

All of this started after I started using Nualgi because of their claims of clearing out all the algae in the aquarium. I tried it because of the film algae on the glass, other than that I had zero algae issues. Since the algae outbreak I've changed all of my light bulbs "they were 9 months old", and changed my RO/DI filters "even though I was still getting zero TDS". Which leads me to believe that the issue is coming from the Nualgi, it's the only thing I've changed in the tank. So I sent them an email asking what was the cause of the problem and they replied asking tank background, water params, etc which I answered.

This was their response:

Once again, we are sorry for your loss. With so much water under the bridge it is hard to pinpoint a reason. As you may know, Nualgi is working extremely well in thousands of tanks. So it is logical to conclude that the reason for your loss is either a pathogen or parasite entering your tank or Nualgi reacting with something. With limited information we are unable to say which one it is. At the very least we expect our customers to reach out to us as soon as they see an issue crop up during Nualgi dosing. If we cannot understand what reaction Nualgi is causing then we simply ask that it is not dosed any further and any excess nutrients causing algae be exported through water changes and other nutrient removers. As you know we shipped you a sample in April and to have a complaint in September does not give us a reasonable opportunity to right something going wrong.

Just as it is important to you to find out what could have happened, it is also important for us to figure this out so we can prevent reoccurrence. To this end we work with an aquarium maintenance company that maintains a large number of tanks and have been in the business for 30 years. They help us troubleshoot user issues and are supported by a marine biologist. They spent considerable time reviewing your information and based on their reading of your situation, here are some thoughts from them.

1. In case of a die off of this magnitude, we believe the phosphate levels cannot be as low as 0.003.

2. A parasite in the aquarium is often a reason for fish and coral death.

3. In my experience, refugiums have been a source of tanks crashing. I never recommend them to my clients.

4. I generally recommend a sand bed of no more than Â½â€ to 1/3â€. Anything more than this is a trap for detritus and cause of excess nutrients and algae.

5. Chris was dosing 12 ml for a 220 plus 40 gal sump. After allowing for rock and sand displacement, it appears he overdosed by 3 ml per week!

I am sure you will not find this to be a conclusive explanation and we wish it was otherwise. However under the circumstances, this is the best we can offer.

My response to their message:

In case of a die off of this magnitude, we believe the phosphate levels cannot be as low as 0.003.

SO the excessive Hair Algae growing in the tank isn't using up the phosphates causing a low reading?

2. A parasite in the aquarium is often a reason for fish and coral death.

I haven't had any fish deaths, and the corals are dieing due to being covered in algae. The corals that are near the powerheads where the flow is strong are not dieing because the algae cannot cover them.

3. In my experience, refugiums have been a source of tanks crashing. I never recommend them to my clients.

So a refugium with just Chaeto, and 3 types of Caluerpa is a bad thing? No sand or rock, just algae and a light...

4. I generally recommend a sand bed of no more than Â½â€ to 1/3â€. Anything more than this is a trap for detritus and cause of excess nutrients and algae.

I've never heard anyone suggest this unless they full on love bare bottom tanks.

5. Chris was dosing 12 ml for a 220 plus 40 gal sump. After allowing for rock and sand displacement, it appears he overdosed by 3 ml per week!

I dosed what you told me to dose in the email you sent me when I signed up...

Do you think the cause of my tank crash could be the Nualgi?

3Twinklets · Oct 4, 2014

Oh no Chris!! So sorry. I would tend to blame the Nualgi.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Oct 4, 2014

I would ignore the "expert" opinion that was provided by their maintenance company.

The nualgi could have contributed, but it is hard to know without understanding the timing better and without knowing everything nualgi puts into their product. The silica in it did not, but the other stuff may have encouraged something undesirable, or been otherwise undesirable.

Many people had not had success with their product and I do not recommend it (despite the fact that they refer to some of my experiments on their web site).

I do think that pure silicate dosing is a fine plan and I do it, not to prevent green algae (although it seems to do that to some extent) but to provide silicate for sponges and other creatures.

Going forward, what is the plan?

What are the current nutrient levels?

Have you measured ammonia recently?

skinz78 · Oct 4, 2014

I've done 2 55g water changes in the past month and each time it looks better for a day and then back to the algae.. I have water mixing right now for another wc and will probably do it tomorrow. Two days ago I added a Phosban reactor half filled with GAC and half filled with Phosban, yesterday the tank seemed to look a lot better. I have a lot of flow going through the reactor, I'm pretty sure the pump is a Maxi Jet 900 and I have it running full on.

I haven't recently checked nutrient levels but plan to later today.

I'm also considering starting vodka dosing, do you recommend it?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Oct 4, 2014

If nutrients are elevated, organic carbon dosing is a fine plan.

If they are not, then I'd be wary of doing it in a situation where it is remotely possible that they nualgi actually lowered the nutrients too far.

MikeAndrews · Oct 4, 2014

Sorry to hear of your tank crash. I had a similar result after using ChemiClean red cyano remover. Used it at less than recommended dose and lost 80% of my sps and LPS. Tank was 10 yrs old and mature colonies. ;(. Moral to the story is do not use any of these products!

mike007 · Oct 4, 2014

That nugali stuff is crap. I tried it and got a cyano issue which has took me a long time to get under control.
I really don't know If that's your Issue but It sounds like you need to test all parameters and see what Is going on.For a sudden tank crash i would have to lean toward a ammonia spike. Sorry bro that's this happened.

BSA Corals · Oct 4, 2014

wow so sry to see this

skinz78 · Oct 4, 2014

Checking my phosphates now, so far I've checked my top off .000, full 55g mixing barrel with no salt added yet .000, frag tank that I do water changes on when I do water changes on the main display .000 I use the same water only difference is I never dosed Nualgi in it, and my DT is at .15 using a Hanna Checker.

Shep · Oct 4, 2014

"In my experience, refugiums have been a source of tanks crashing. I never recommend them to my clients"
I have always head that refugiums are really good to have, I know that if you have a DSB that can eventually lead to some problems but I have never heard someone say that they cause tank crashes. I am by no means an expert but I don't even see how it could cause crashes.

skinz78 · Oct 4, 2014

Shep said:
"In my experience, refugiums have been a source of tanks crashing. I never recommend them to my clients"
y I have always head that refugiums are really good to have, I know that if you have a DSB that can eventually lead to some problems but I have never heard someone say that they cause tank crashes. I am by no means an expert but I don't even see how it could cause crashes.

The only reason I can see it is if people have low flow and a ton of rock in there and it becomes a detritus trap.

Shep · Oct 4, 2014

skinz78 said:
The only reason I can see it is if people have low flow and a ton of rock in there and it becomes a detritus trap.

Yea but I feel like with that you would slowly see a your tank's health start to deteriorate slowly over time not just all of a sudden having a tank crash or would it be possible for it to be fine and then just kill your tank?

FL_Reefer · Oct 4, 2014

Skinz, this really sucks bro. Your tank was amazing before the use of that product. Not sure if it was the cause of issue but I bet that I deff had something to do with it. It was a new product that came out and who knows what is in it??? There response to you is sub par. Really a refuge is not recommended.?? It's just kind of fishy that a product causes more of what you were trying to get rid of. You obviously know what you are doing with how your tank looked. Again sorry and keep your head up and keep on going and it will be back to the tank you had before.

TUSI · Oct 4, 2014

Stop using anything for a while. Just water changes and keep your three most important levels steady. Go to basic. The nualgi is a problem with your tank, read about it and some people had same issue as you. Every tank is going to behave differently (I'm not saying nualgi is a bad product) if you have a spike of algae your nitrates and phos reading could be off even though they will show low levels.

Up2no6ood · Oct 5, 2014

I had a major cyano outbreak that I attribute to nualgi. I liked how clear it made the water but not worth the risk in my opinion. Sorry for your losses.

afamousjohnson · Oct 5, 2014

Chris - had a buddy down here have a bad experience with it also. In your reactor - I have had below par results when I mix my media in there (carbon - binder) they need a different flow level to work properly from what I've learned and from personal experience get better results just running the binder by its lonesome - got a cheapo TLF reactor to run carbon solely along side. I am refering to gfo tho - haven't used the phos ban so dont know its flow recommendation?