Tank PH with a Calcium reactor help

[atomic081]

Hey everyone.
I'm hoping someone can answer a question for me.

I'm running a calcium reactor that is adding effluent using a dosing pump. I'm struggling to get my PH in my display over 8. I know not to chase PH, but if a simple adjustment can raise it, why wouldn't I do it.

As of right now I shoot for a Alk of 10 in my display tank. To keep this I'm adding 50,000Ml of Effluent throughout the day.
My calcium reactor is set at 6.3 PH internally.

If I I raise the PH in the calcium reactor and add more Effluent. Will that help to raise the PH in my display or by adding more Effluent will it lower my PH in the display?

Thanks!!!

 

[lapin]

See troubleshooting : Maybe degassing the effluent can help.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-05/sh/feature/

 

[jda]

A well tuned reactor will barely make your tank pH move at all - the kind where all co2 (nearly) gets used in the chamber. If you use too much co2, either by design, or by using a pH controller with dump-and-quit type of method, then excess co2 can get down the effluent line into the tank and can lower the tank pH. The pH of the effluent does not seem to move the tank pH, but excess co2 in the water will.

There is a paper in my signature about how to tune your reactor to be efficient and not waste co2, but I don't use a pH probe or controller - waste of my time.

All of this said, airborne co2 in your home will be the largest cause of whatever your pH is. We have a 48" whole house fan that we run for a few hours on nice winter days and every day in the summer... this is not like cracking a window open an inch... it is like 14000-15000 CFM. Even in colorado we get a few 60 degree plus days every week or two in the winter. The fresh air is nice.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hey everyone.
I'm hoping someone can answer a question for me.

I'm running a calcium reactor that is adding effluent using a dosing pump. I'm struggling to get my PH in my display over 8. I know not to chase PH, but if a simple adjustment can raise it, why wouldn't I do it.

As of right now I shoot for a Alk of 10 in my display tank. To keep this I'm adding 50,000Ml of Effluent throughout the day.
My calcium reactor is set at 6.3 PH internally.

If I I raise the PH in the calcium reactor and add more Effluent. Will that help to raise the PH in my display or by adding more Effluent will it lower my PH in the display?

Thanks!!!

How low is the tank pH at minimum?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

A well tuned reactor will barely make your tank pH move at all - the kind where all co2 (nearly) gets used in the chamber. If you use too much co2, either by design, or by using a pH controller with dump-and-quit type of method, then excess co2 can get down the effluent line into the tank and can lower the tank pH. The pH of the effluent does not seem to move the tank pH, but excess co2 in the water will.

I don't agree with that, but I do agree that tuning and degassing can minimize the effect. The method inherently adds CO2 to the aquarium. At the end of the day, ALL of the CO2 sent to the reactor ends up in the aquarium (if not degassed in between) and needs to be blown off or used up somehow.

 

[jda]

If you ever set up a tank again and get a calcium reactor, tune it to run 24/7 and keep the output dKh around 25. Your tank pH won't even move. If you want dKh higher than this, then you can get into situations where co2 leaves the reactor unreacted and can lower the pH. It works. Most pH issues with calcium reactors is the dumping of too much co2 too quickly and it just goes out the top of the reactor right into the tank.

 

[atomic081]

How low is the tank pH at minimum?

7.8 min Not a big deal, but If I could get it higher I would like.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If you ever set up a tank again and get a calcium reactor, tune it to run 24/7 and keep the output dKh around 25. Your tank pH won't even move. If you want dKh higher than this, then you can get into situations where co2 leaves the reactor unreacted and can lower the pH. It works. Most pH issues with calcium reactors is the dumping of too much co2 too quickly and it just goes out the top of the reactor right into the tank.

Tanks with CaCO3/CO2 reactors generally do run lower in pH, and it makes perfect sense due to all the CO2 added.

While tuning minimizes the CO2 that must leave the cylinder, once it leaves the cylinder it has no where else to go but end up in the tank (unless degassed first). Where else would it go? Of course it can leave the aquarium afterwards,

The overall process from media to coral skeleton has the CO2 unchanged and added to the water:

CaCO3 + CO2 + H2O (in reactor) ---> Ca++ + 2HCO3- (flowing toward tank) --> CaCO3 + CO2 + H2O (after corals use it)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

7.8 min Not a big deal, but If I could get it higher I would like.

In addition to optimally tuning the reactor, and possibly degassing the effluent, all the usual CO2 removal methods apply: fresh air, hydroxide as part of the alk demand, more photosynthesis, etc.

 

[mattfish]

If you ever set up a tank again and get a calcium reactor, tune it to run 24/7 and keep the output dKh around 25. Your tank pH won't even move. If you want dKh higher than this, then you can get into situations where co2 leaves the reactor unreacted and can lower the pH. It works. Most pH issues with calcium reactors is the dumping of too much co2 too quickly and it just goes out the top of the reactor right into the tank.

Hello JDA, hope you can help , read your paper on Tuning Calcium reactor and followed your steps carefully because i have the same Korallin reactor. Like you say at 40 drips per min and 10 bubbles a min ,getting 26 dkh in effulent, i let it stay there a few days, then tested tank dkh which is very low at 5.2. Obviously i must raise bubble and effluent drip , But can you tell me how many bubble and drips to raise per day ? Don,t want to raise to quick. Thanks

 

[jda]

Raise it with baking soda and calcium chloride and see if the reactor will keep it there.

CaRx is not good at raising things in the short term. Always use bicarbonate (or carbonate) and some sort of Calcium (calcium chloride is good) to raise things.

If you have to raise to maintain, then go with about 10%, or so, and wait a few days to see how it settles out. It will not be perfect and your raise might have a slightly different dKh, but if it maintains, then you are good.

As your stuff grows, you will have to increase the output. I just increased mine the other day. Tank dKh was about 6.4 (down from 7.2 4 months ago). It will go up to about 7.2-7.4 over a few weeks, level off and then slowly go back down again into the 6s over the next 3-4 months. That is just stuff growing and increasing demand.

You will get good at it in time.

 

[jda]

While tuning minimizes the CO2 that must leave the cylinder, once it leaves the cylinder it has no where else to go but end up in the tank (unless degassed first). Where else would it go? Of course it can leave the aquarium afterwards,

In some reactor designs, it will accumulate in the top of the reactor and does not leave the cylinder - you can degas into the room with the outlet and fix your tune, hopefully. Korallin and some others extend the intake pipe down a few inches to allow co2 to build up if you have too much - I modify my other brands to do this if they are reverse flow. Not only does this allow you to tune, the co2 does not hit the tank. If you drip the effluent into the sump, then that allows larger bubbles to just go into the air in the stand/room, but that has other indirect effects on pH, which you know.

With a well-tuned Korallin that does trap co2 if I have a bad tune, my tank pH barely drops .01-.02 with about a $40 pH pen (probably not super accurate, but also not junk). This is a drop in the bucket when a polar vortex and no open windows for a week can do 20x this much of a swing.

I was discussing this with you probably two decades ago on RC and started to trap co2 in the cylinder instead of letting it go into the tank, and it made a world of difference in my pH. Not only did I learn how to tune better, I figured out a feature in my reactor that I did not know about.

I won a AquaMaxx at a local club auction and my tank pH went up about .7 after I installed an intake down 1.5 inches below the top to let gas accumulate there too... use the pH probe port to degas it if I need to.

 

[mattfish]

Raise it with baking soda and calcium chloride and see if the reactor will keep it there.

CaRx is not good at raising things in the short term. Always use bicarbonate (or carbonate) and some sort of Calcium (calcium chloride is good) to raise things.

If you have to raise to maintain, then go with about 10%, or so, and wait a few days to see how it settles out. It will not be perfect and your raise might have a slightly different dKh, but if it maintains, then you are good.

As your stuff grows, you will have to increase the output. I just increased mine the other day. Tank dKh was about 6.4 (down from 7.2 4 months ago). It will go up to about 7.2-7.4 over a few weeks, level off and then slowly go back down again into the 6s over the next 3-4 months. That is just stuff growing and increasing demand.

You will get good at it in time.

Wow , thanks , i will try that with the B-Ionic , -- Juat wanted to ask you one other thing on the psi pressure gauge , i have the CarbonDoser electronic ,- The instruction sheet for the Korallin reactor says best PSI is between 10 - 15, when i go to that pressure the bubbles are very erratic , i find the most steady bubble is at 0 psi. - i guess all regulators are different , Your Thoughts ? what do you keep yours ?

 

[jda]

Pressure gauge PSI is not uniform. I have one that needs to read about 30 to work right and another that barely reads at all. I have a super high dollar stainless Victor that somebody built (I got it used) that likes to be at about 15, and I kinda trust that one since it is a precision piece of equipment - the carbon doser box is nice, but their regulator is just OK.

I turn the pressure up just enough so that the bubbles are consistent, but not too much more.

 

[mattfish]

Pressure gauge PSI is not uniform. I have one that needs to read about 30 to work right and another that barely reads at all. I have a super high dollar stainless Victor that somebody built (I got it used) that likes to be at about 15, and I kinda trust that one since it is a precision piece of equipment - the carbon doser box is nice, but their regulator is just OK.

I turn the pressure up just enough so that the bubbles are consistent, but not too much more.

Thanks for all the info.