The End of Reef Keeping in the US?

[N.Sreefer]

By banning the hobby that won’t save the world it’s just plain stupid. Mass depopulation via man made viruses or war is the only way to save the planet. Perhaps that’s why they are pushing ww3 with Russia to save the planet

I agree banning the hobby would be a step backwards not forwards. I don't believe that this bill will be as far reaching as people believe. It will be rewritten to death and have no teeth. I also agree that we cant support the growing population of the human race its not sustainable.

And it's not just climate change. It's everything from pollution (air, land, water), loss of habitat, poaching, over fishing, etc. Way too many people have their head in the sand regarding the entirety of the threats. I also get more than a little ticked off that the sole focus seems to be climate change when I think we (and every other creature) are going to drown in our own garbage or die of microplastic poisoning long before we drown in the flooding oceans and lakes. Humanity needs to get the garbage problem under control in lock step with climate action.

I agree the problems go way further than climate change I think the reason that climate change is brought up so much is people saying there is no issue my tax dollars shouldnt go to that. The pacific garbage patch is impossible to deny climate change on the other hand always seems to have detractors.

I agree except for the part "well kill ourselves with climate change". It's the height of human hubris to think we can effect the entire climate of the planet to such a degree. But Killing off animal populations and reefs? Totally doable and sad to see.

Think about it this way earth experiences natural heating and cooling cycles we can live with those swings and survive ice ages but what we cant do is come back from swinging the pendulum to far.

 

[Lyss]

I agree except for the part "well kill ourselves with climate change". It's the height of human hubris to think we can effect the entire climate of the planet to such a degree. But Killing off animal populations and reefs? Totally doable and sad to see.

Wait, wha? But by that logic poachers should be able to just kill whatever they want b/c it's arrogant for humans to think we could have the power to kill off an entire species. How do you get from we can't affect the climate to we can kill off animal populations and reefs? We make an impact on the planet in many ways with our actions for sure, and it's not arrogance to realize and accept that.

 

[ReeferSamster]

what? the US makes chicken scratch off of it. We are not that big, we are a small group with a few companies that are not unified, we are easy to bully because we cannot push back as much as others.

We should form a Consumer Lobbyist group and have a flag depicting a clownfish holding up a torch and do protests in front of the whitehouse.

By banning the hobby that won’t save the world it’s just plain stupid. Mass depopulation via man made viruses or war is the only way to save the planet. Perhaps that’s why they are pushing ww3 with Russia to save the planet or is it the massive amount of money the arms dealers will receive

What?? Are you advising that we should depopulate by killing people or start a war with countries that have nuclear weapons?

I think you had too much coffee today.

 

[pulpfiction]

Think about it this way earth experiences natural heating and cooling cycles we can live with those swings and survive ice ages but what we cant do is come back from swinging the pendulum to far.

Not sure how you think humans will swing it further than it's ever gone. Like you said, it will happen with or without humans around like it always has.

Wait, wha? So by that logic poachers should be able to just kill whatever they want b/c it's arrogant for humans to think we could have the power to kill off an entire species. We make an impact with our actions for sure, and it's not arrogance to realize and accept that.

I can tell you skimmed the post and didn't really read it.

 

[N.Sreefer]

We should form a Consumer Lobbyist group and have a flag depicting a clownfish holding up a torch and do protests in front of the whitehouse.


What?? Are advising that we should depopulate by killing people or start a war with countries that have nuclear weapons?

I think you had too much coffee today.

Its an odd solution I'll give ya that but the situation he brought up is not an easy one to rectify. What options does the human race have to keep its population below the carrying capacity of our planet? Any solution to that problem is likely going to sound out to lunch.

 

[DE FISH]

We should form a Consumer Lobbyist group and have a flag depicting a clownfish holding up a torch and do protests in front of the whitehouse.


What?? Are advising that we should depopulate by killing people or start a war with countries that have nuclear weapons?

I think you had too much coffee today.

The fact you can’t even control your own border but are prepared to start a massive war over Ukraine’s is crazy. I am not advising that is the solution but rather it seems that is reality. War has always been a means of depopulation.

 

[N.Sreefer]

Not sure how you think humans will swing it further than it's ever gone. Like you said, it will happen with or without humans around like it always has.


I can tell you skimmed the post and didn't really read it.

By pumping out more carbon offsets than the world has ever seen. Theres never been a species taking fossil fuels out of the planet and burning them before.

 

[Lyss]

Not sure how you think humans will swing it further than it's ever gone. Like you said, it will happen with or without humans around like it always has.


I can tell you skimmed the post and didn't really read it.

No, I read it. Went back and edited my post to be more clear with my thinking but you must not have noticed that:

"Wait, wha? But by that logic poachers should be able to just kill whatever they want b/c it's arrogant for humans to think we could have the power to kill off an entire species. How do you get from we can't affect the climate to we can kill off animal populations and reefs? We make an impact on the planet in many ways with our actions for sure, and it's not arrogance to realize and accept that."

 

[pulpfiction]

No, I read it. Went back and edited my post to be more clear with my thinking but you must not have noticed that:

"Wait, wha? But by that logic poachers should be able to just kill whatever they want b/c it's arrogant for humans to think we could have the power to kill off an entire species. How do you get from we can't affect the climate to we can kill off animal populations and reefs? We make an impact on the planet in many ways with our actions for sure, and it's not arrogance to realize and accept that."

I said humans thinking they can create such scale of climate change is hubris. Not that thinking we can kill off a species is hubris. I specifically said it's doable for humans to kill off a species. Driving a species to extinction by human hands isn't near on the same scale as climate change. I don't know why you're going off about 'we should kill whatever species we want'.

 

[N.Sreefer]

I said humans thinking they can create such scale of climate change is hubris. Not that thinking we can kill off a species is hubris. I specifically said it's doable for humans to kill off a species. Driving a species to extinction by human hands isn't near on the same scale as climate change. I don't know why you're going off about 'we should kill whatever species we want'.

It is arrogance to say that we don't effect the environment around us. A good example of humans changing the world on a mass scale is the extinction of megafauna that caused grasslands to turn into barren tundra. Before humans even invented the wheel we were changing the climate of the planet. Before the first drop of oil was pulled from the earth we had already destroyed an entire ecosystem. Which in turn caused the earth to warm. This didn't happen overnight, it can't be fixed overnight, and it wont end the world overnight. We should all be much more concerned with natural reefs dying off than with some small change to an existing bill. This hobby isn't going to be killed by this act it'll die if we do nothing and watch our shallow water reefs become a thing of the past.

 

[SlugSnorter]

We should form a Consumer Lobbyist group and have a flag depicting a clownfish holding up a torch and do protests in front of the whitehouse.


What?? Are you advising that we should depopulate by killing people or start a war with countries that have nuclear weapons?

I think you had too much coffee today.

that wont fix it either lol, just kill everything but the rats, rocks and roaches (I know some other stuff would survive but most ocean and land stuff would be Fed).

 

[SlugSnorter]

I said humans thinking they can create such scale of climate change is hubris. Not that thinking we can kill off a species is hubris. I specifically said it's doable for humans to kill off a species. Driving a species to extinction by human hands isn't near on the same scale as climate change. I don't know why you're going off about 'we should kill whatever species we want'.

we can turn entire landmass to glass with our weapons, you underestimate humanity and over estimate the resilience of the world. We could not ever wipe out all life, but we can and will cause major issues to our current ecosystems.

 

[Lyss]

I said humans thinking they can create such scale of climate change is hubris. Not that thinking we can kill off a species is hubris. I specifically said it's doable for humans to kill off a species. Driving a species to extinction by human hands isn't near on the same scale as climate change. I don't know why you're going off about 'we should kill whatever species we want'.

I was commenting on the logic you're using to get from point A to point B.

Killing off a species affects ecosystems, which affects the planet, and can accelerate climate change. These things are all interconnected. I just don't get your thinking on driving a species to extinction being doable by humans but affecting the climate with our actions is not. It's just not a logical or scientifically sound statement, that's all.

 

[pulpfiction]

It is arrogance to say that we don't effect the environment around us. A good example of humans changing the world on a mass scale is the extinction of megafauna that caused grasslands to turn into barren tundra. Before humans even invented the wheel we were changing the climate of the planet. Before the first drop of oil was pulled from the earth we had already destroyed an entire ecosystem. Which in turn caused the earth to warm. This didn't happen overnight, it can't be fixed overnight, and it wont end the world overnight. We should all be much more concerned with natural reefs dying off than with some small change to an existing bill. This hobby isn't going to be killed by this act it'll die if we do nothing and watch our shallow water reefs become a thing of the past.

I don't know why y'all keep thinking I'm saying we can't effect the environment around us. That's not the same as climate change.

 

[Lyss]

I don't know why y'all keep thinking I'm saying we can't effect the environment around us. That's not the same as climate change.

B/c it is exactly the same as climate change.

 

[madmarks]

Does this apply to canada too?

Not yet. But it may limit animals arriving from the US.

 

[N.Sreefer]

I don't know why y'all keep thinking I'm saying we can't effect the environment around us. That's not the same as climate change.

I feel like you didn't read the post you quoted there. I explained how us effecting the environment effects the world temp.

I'm gonna stop beating the dead horse here I said my piece. I'm out.

 

[biecacka]

I am the OP... If you read the first post, you would know the answer to your question.. I originally asked if others had received a specific email from a vendor regarding the Lacey Act. There are no threads that answer that question.. Sadly, this one doesn't either.

However, I'm glad this post has developed as it has. There are multiple facets that have been discussed in this forum that are not covered in any of the other.

I invite you to read the content of this thread, I hope you will learn something.. If not, you are much smarter then I.

Ben

Ben, I have and did read the thread...no i am not smarter than you. The reality is there are other threads just like this one and the contents are all speculation until the senate votes on this bill. I am just overwhelmed with the whole end of the world hype....its overkill and annoying. Once your original question wasnt answered, then this thread became just like all the others. The media does enough of the fear mongering world is coming to an end, I was hoping to get on r2r to avoid it. But no such luck. This is how politics works, government 101. This amendment is no different. I want to pass a bill, you dont like it but will support it, IF i let you attach you bill as an amendment. The America Competes has around 200 amendments attached to it the last time i read it.
This will likely ( based on my conversations with local senators and the responses they tell me they have gotten from other senators) not pass in the senate, then it will get scrubbed of all unnecessary amendments. Most likely the ones that do stay will also be changed to some degree because it will be needed for the compromise. I was not trying to come off as rude to you, I did read the whole thread, I just really dont understand why there are so many of them online in the forums. Most of the media outlets, are only reporting parts of the act to incite fear or create ruckus. The bill is rather lengthy for what it is and should also be reported that most senators have already stated they will kill it when it comes to the senate. So, if that happens then we all got worked up for nothing.
again, sorry if i offended you as that was not my intention.

not smarter than you-

 

[czoolander]

There's an importer in Toronto with a Cites import certificate that supplies alot of LFS on the eastern seaboard with coral/fish. All the coral and SW fish I get land in BC or Ontario before shipping to the maritimes. But not through the U.S.A. Transshipping through the U.S is a thing of the past its cheaper and easier to ship direct air freight to Canada. Seeing as our environmental law is leaps and bounds ahead of the U.S I don't see a bill being amended to include law like ours with cites control and the sort effecting us in any way.

That is great news to hear !!!!! thank you for sharing !!!!! I am only 2 years into this hobby I would hate for it to end so soon

 

[Ben Pedersen]

Ben, I have and did read the thread...no i am not smarter than you. The reality is there are other threads just like this one and the contents are all speculation until the senate votes on this bill. I am just overwhelmed with the whole end of the world hype....its overkill and annoying. Once your original question wasnt answered, then this thread became just like all the others. The media does enough of the fear mongering world is coming to an end, I was hoping to get on r2r to avoid it. But no such luck. This is how politics works, government 101. This amendment is no different. I want to pass a bill, you dont like it but will support it, IF i let you attach you bill as an amendment. The America Competes has around 200 amendments attached to it the last time i read it.
This will likely ( based on my conversations with local senators and the responses they tell me they have gotten from other senators) not pass in the senate, then it will get scrubbed of all unnecessary amendments. Most likely the ones that do stay will also be changed to some degree because it will be needed for the compromise. I was not trying to come off as rude to you, I did read the whole thread, I just really dont understand why there are so many of them online in the forums. Most of the media outlets, are only reporting parts of the act to incite fear or create ruckus. The bill is rather lengthy for what it is and should also be reported that most senators have already stated they will kill it when it comes to the senate. So, if that happens then we all got worked up for nothing.
again, sorry if i offended you as that was not my intention.

not smarter than you-

Your comments were not offensive at all.. It's difficult for me to express emotion in text. If I sounded condescending or angry, I apologize. I appreciate your input and feed back.. Sincerely. My comment regarding "smarter then I" was meant to make you smile.

It's funny and an indication of how charged this issue is, that no one actually responded to my question about the email. . I really wonder if businesses are commonly sending these types of emails. It was the first time I received one.

I don't regret starting this post. I have learned a lot and I hope others have as well!