The Immeriate Cure for Dinoflagellates

[MrTang13]

So, for anyone following my posts, I’m sure you’ll be able to tell I have aggressively been testing ways to destroy dinoflagellates.

Yesterday, a method that I thought would have taken much more time to work, destroyed my dinos overnight.

Not only that, it requires no hardware purchase at all, and is the least expensive method I have used to date.

Finally, it took virtually 45 seconds to perform unlike similarly invsasive blackouts that take up to a week.

The product I used is NoPox (you can see more about this product at the link):
https://www.redseafish.com/reef-care-program/algae-management-program/no3po4-x/

 

[IDAN]

sound to me like an advertise... not a real research made by you.

 

[landlubber]

congrats on finding the solution to your problem but lets not get ahead of ourselves here.
many have used nopox with no result and considering how many different strains of dinos there are, the fact that not every one responds the same to treatment and that you're one day into what you consider "beating them" I'm going to just chalk this up as anecdotal.

 

[MrTang13]

Edited for appropriate URL parameters.

sound to me like an advertise... not a real research made by you.

Honestly, RedSea is a reputable company and everyone here knows they don’t shill the forums.

The bottom line is, NoPox is an amazing tactic in the strategy of lowering nutrients.

I would highly recommend you begin dosing it daily as it will also bring nitrates and phosphates to zero.

 

[MrTang13]

congrats on finding the solution to your problem but lets not get ahead of ourselves here.
many have used nopox with no result and considering how many different strains of dinos there are, the fact that not every one responds the same to treatment and that you're one day into what you consider "beating them" I'm going to just chalk this up as anecdotal.

Randy Holmes says that lowering Nitrares and Phosphates is the preferred method of treating dinos*. As far as I can tell, NoPox is the only method of effectively doing that, short of building a refugium or having a 8 inch deep sand bed.

 

[landlubber]

Edited for appropriate URL parameters.


Honestly, RedSea is a reputable company and everyone here knows they don’t shill the forums.

The bottom line is, NoPox is an amazing tactic in the strategy of lowering nutrients.

I would highly recommend you begin dosing it daily as it will also bring nitrates and phosphates to zero.

Click here to bring nitrates to 0: https://www.redseafish.com/reef-care-program/algae-management-program/no3po4-x/

agreed, RedSea is a reputable company but unfortunately we don't know if you're a reputable person and the advice you're giving isn't logical considering that bringing NO3 and PO4 to zero is a great way to open the door to dinos in the first place.

 

[IDAN]

I head in my tank Ostreopsis Dino (very aggressive, verified after microscope test), I tried all this products DinoX etc.
nothing help it, It was the worst 3 months of my tank (the tank was 2 years old).
the only thing that helped me was to keep:
Phosphates to at least > 0.1 ppm
Nitrates to 5-10 ppm
vacuum every Dino possible 2 times a day, remove GFO and ton of carbon to detox the dying Dino plus UV sterilizer

 

[landlubber]

As far as I can tell, NoPox is the only method of effectively doing that, short of building a refugium or having a 8 inch deep sand bed.

right, because doing water changes, carbon dosing, using biological media, running gfo, feeding less and/or just getting your bio-load in line with your tanks consumption aren't viable options for nutrient reduction? come on man!
Randy Holmes-Farley has credibility in this forum and his advice has helped thousands of us but I have yet to see him blindly endorse a product ever and I find it hard to believe a marine chemist is going to make a blanket claim that it is the absolute resolve for every strain of dinos out there.
most dinos are a result of setting up a low nutrient environment where other typical algae species cannot survive. further sterilizing the system of nutrients is a recipe for disaster which will in most cases worsen the dinos and eventually starve your coral.
whether or not you are shilling for nopox isn't important but the way you're advising its use sure is.

 

[Crustaceon]

I’m sure it would work...temporarily and if you overdose the tank. What happens is the same as overdosing vodka. The bacterial population would explode and strip the tank of all nitrates and phosphates to the point where even dinos & cyano (and coral) can’t thrive. But when that NoPo4x bacterial population starts to starve to death, the remaining cyano and dino that survived suddenly have EXACTLY the competition-free environment they need and take off like a rocket. Fantastic... You know what works better? Maintaining water parameters that aren’t ideal for cyano and dino. If you have either, raise your nitrates and phosphates a little.

 

[landlubber]

I’m sure it would work...temporarily and if you overdose the tank. What happens is the same as overdosing vodka. The bacterial population would explode and strip the tank of all nitrates and phosphates to the point where even dinos & cyano (and coral) can’t thrive. But when that NoPo4x bacterial population starts to starve to death, the remaining cyano and dino that survived suddenly have EXACTLY the competition-free environment they need and take off like a rocket. Fantastic... You know what works better? Maintaining water parameters that aren’t ideal for cyano and dino. If you have either, raise your nitrates and phosphates a little.

this guy gets it.

 

[MrTang13]

right, because doing water changes, carbon dosing, using biological media, running gfo, feeding less and/or just getting your bio-load in line with your tanks consumption aren't viable options for nutrient reduction? come on man!
Randy Holmes-Farley has credibility in this forum and his advice has helped thousands of us but I have yet to see him blindly endorse a product ever and I find it hard to believe a marine chemist is going to make a blanket claim that it is the absolute resolve for every strain of dinos out there.
most dinos are a result of setting up a low nutrient environment where other typical algae species cannot survive. further sterilizing the system of nutrients is a recipe for disaster which will in most cases worsen the dinos and eventually starve your coral.
whether or not you are shilling for nopox isn't important but the way you're advising its use sure is.

Please cite a source for low nutrient systems benefiting dinos. This is a myth I believe.

Are you suggesting that Randy Holmes Farley would not endorse NoPox?

 

[landlubber]

Please cite a source for low nutrient systems benefiting dinos. This is a myth I believe.

Are you suggesting that Randy Holmes Farley would not endorse NoPox?

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellates-–-are-you-tired-of-battling-altogether.293318/
331 pages and over 6600 responses consistent with my personal findings.
would RHF endorse NOPOX? I don't know.... possibly, but I find it hard to believe he would the way you're suggesting.
please explain why that ABSOLUTELY MASSIVE thread detailing how difficult dinoflagellates are to manage even exists if the solution is just to add a couple of caps of a certain product that has been available the entire time?
again, not saying NOPOX is a useless product but I sure am saying the advice you're giving is going to cause financial loss for the majority that take it in this circumstance.

 

[MrTang13]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellates-–-are-you-tired-of-battling-altogether.293318/
331 pages and over 6600 responses consistent with my personal findings.
would RHF endorse NOPOX? I don't know.... possibly, but I find it hard to believe he would the way you're suggesting.
please explain why that ABSOLUTELY MASSIVE thread detailing how difficult dinoflagellates are to manage even exists if the solution is just to add a couple of caps of a certain product that has been available the entire time?
again, not saying NOPOX is a useless product but I sure am saying the advice you're giving is going to cause financial loss for the majority that take it in this circumstance.

Please link to any reputable source that suggests low nutrients fuel dinos. Not a thread on a public form, where some of the unknown commenters believe the claim.

From Randy’s thread, he suggests the opposite.

 

[landlubber]

Please link to any reputable source that suggests low nutrients fuel dinos. Not a thread on a public form, where some of the unknown commenters believe the claim.

From Randy’s thread, he suggests the opposite.

then I ask the same of you. please link Randy's advice so we can extrapolate the finding ourselves instead of your "interpretation" of his statement.

 

[MrTang13]

then I ask the same of you. please link Randy's advice so we can extrapolate the finding ourselves instead of your "interpretation" of his statement.

Sure, no problem. Below is an article by Randy.

Step one of the section labeled “How to treat problem dinoflagellates” he instructs to lower nutrients, and first speaks specifically on nitrates and phosphates.

Knowledge is power. Always check your sources for credibility.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/

 

[landlubber]

this is becoming laughable.
so you took an article titled "problem dinoflagellates and pH" and Frankenstein'd it into "using NOPOX to beat dinoflagellates" by simply following 2 lines of his 1000+ word essay? did you follow his recommendation to alter pH which is the entire basis of his article? did you even use a microscope to properly identify the strain to begin with?
even more interesting was finding you had a glowing review of Dino X just a few weeks previous which ends with you stating you had eradicated them from your system and yet here we are.
listen man, good for you for being an avid believer in the claims of each of these companies products. unfortunately you are broadcasting the results as "successful" a single day following the final dose and then not updating the threads to identify a week later you are right back where you started. do you still stand behind the effectiveness of DinoX as the answer for resolving problematic dinos? I would guess not considering you're off championing another product that doesn't even claim to be a treatment option for dinos to begin with!
a well populated network of microfauna, chemical and biological stability and system maturity are what makes for the unanimous perception of a successful tank, not cherry picking bits of someones advice and then promoting the results before you've even given the system time to respond.
best of luck and I look forward to next week when you're offering "sage" advice about the next product you haphazardly dump into your tank to beat the problem that never left.
knowledge is only power to those able to understand the information to begin with.

 

[MrTang13]

this is becoming laughable.
so you took an article titled "problem dinoflagellates and pH" and Frankenstein'd it into "using NOPOX to beat dinoflagellates" by simply following 2 lines of his 1000+ word essay? did you follow his recommendation to alter pH which is the entire basis of his article? did you even use a microscope to properly identify the strain to begin with?
even more interesting was finding you had a glowing review of Dino X just a few weeks previous which ends with you stating you had eradicated them from your system and yet here we are.
listen man, good for you for being an avid believer in the claims of each of these companies products. unfortunately you are broadcasting the results as "successful" a single day following the final dose and then not updating the threads to identify a week later you are right back where you started. do you still stand behind the effectiveness of DinoX as the answer for resolving problematic dinos? I would guess not considering you're off championing another product that doesn't even claim to be a treatment option for dinos to begin with!
a well populated network of microfauna, chemical and biological stability and system maturity are what makes for the unanimous perception of a successful tank, not cherry picking bits of someones advice and then promoting the results before you've even given the system time to respond.
best of luck and I look forward to next week when you're offering "sage" advice about the next product you haphazardly dump into your tank to beat the problem that never left.
knowledge is only power to those able to understand the information to begin with.

But what about that source?

 

[Crustaceon]

Please cite a source for low nutrient systems benefiting dinos. This is a myth I believe.

Are you suggesting that Randy Holmes Farley would not endorse NoPox?

“Perhaps because most folks haven't had the ready capability to really drive N and P excessively low until fairly recent years.

The hypothesis (well, the one that I prefer anyway) is that some organism (such as algae) that needs reasonable levels of N and P outcompetes the dinos for something (maybe just space, maybe a trace element, especially since water changes seem to also make the issue worse). N and/or P get too low, this competitor ceases to thrive, and the competition with dinos begins to swing toward dinos.”

- Randy Holmes Farley 1/11/2018

 

[MrTang13]

“Perhaps because most folks haven't had the ready capability to really drive N and P excessively low until fairly recent years.

The hypothesis (well, the one that I prefer anyway) is that some organism (such as algae) that needs reasonable levels of N and P outcompetes the dinos for something (maybe just space, maybe a trace element, especially since water changes seem to also make the issue worse). N and/or P get too low, this competitor ceases to thrive, and the competition with dinos begins to swing toward dinos.”

- Randy Holmes Farley 1/11/2018

Please keep reading the source you just posted.


The link can be found here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellates-and-no3-and-po4-why-do-i-have-to-worry-now.350315/


Randy later states:

“Has such a thing ever been demonstrated for any organism? I just can't see any plausible mechanism that some extra nitrate and phosphate (not attaining toxic levels), by itself, causes an organism to stop growing.”


Randy wants proof of causation too.

Randy is Harvard educated btw.

 

[landlubber]

Please keep reading the source you just posted.


The link can be found here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellates-and-no3-and-po4-why-do-i-have-to-worry-now.350315/


Randy later states:

“Has such a thing ever been demonstrated for any organism? I just can't see any plausible mechanism that some extra nitrate and phosphate (not attaining toxic levels), by itself, causes an organism to stop growing.”


Randy wants proof of causation too.

Randy is Harvard educated btw.

Instead of chasing our tails around I just asked Randy directly so stay tuned for an update regardless of it working for or against my argument. either way, I suggest you stop promoting NOPOX as a Dino cure considering the product itself doesn't describe it as so.