The Immeriate Cure for Dinoflagellates
- Thread starter MrTang13
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I tried to stay out of this one since it seemed silly at first.
Here are some facts, though, since a lot of this stuff is getting misconstrued: Dinos are poisoned with higher levels of nitrates. Cyano can be too. This is not a cure. They can live very well in the area from about 2 to 5/10 ppm of nitrate (give or take depending on the species). You can get rid of them by lowering nitrates even lower down to NSW levels of about .1 to .5 nitrate - this works for cyano too. Both cyano and diatoms can get fuel from ammonia and ammonium even if you have low levels of residual nitrate in the water column. The best way to keep both at bay is with lower, but detectable levels of nitrate but also high amounts of throughput that remove as well as you add. You can also poison them by raising your nitrate and phosphate levels, but this was once described to me to be like never eating again to combat diabetes... which just causes more issues.
No respectable scientist or biologist would ever recommend bringing any building block down to zero. Ever. You need some to build new tissue and repair old. Low is fine, but zero is just dumb.
2-3 inches of sand is enough to keep nitrates just barely detectable... 8 inches is a joke.
Diatoms and Dinos are more fueled by phosphate than nitrate. Phosphate is not as easy to remove with organic carbon dosing. Many people have diatom and dino issues with very low N and some higher levels of P - again, they could be processing ammonia very well.
Here are some facts, though, since a lot of this stuff is getting misconstrued: Dinos are poisoned with higher levels of nitrates. Cyano can be too. This is not a cure. They can live very well in the area from about 2 to 5/10 ppm of nitrate (give or take depending on the species). You can get rid of them by lowering nitrates even lower down to NSW levels of about .1 to .5 nitrate - this works for cyano too. Both cyano and diatoms can get fuel from ammonia and ammonium even if you have low levels of residual nitrate in the water column. The best way to keep both at bay is with lower, but detectable levels of nitrate but also high amounts of throughput that remove as well as you add. You can also poison them by raising your nitrate and phosphate levels, but this was once described to me to be like never eating again to combat diabetes... which just causes more issues.
No respectable scientist or biologist would ever recommend bringing any building block down to zero. Ever. You need some to build new tissue and repair old. Low is fine, but zero is just dumb.
2-3 inches of sand is enough to keep nitrates just barely detectable... 8 inches is a joke.
Diatoms and Dinos are more fueled by phosphate than nitrate. Phosphate is not as easy to remove with organic carbon dosing. Many people have diatom and dino issues with very low N and some higher levels of P - again, they could be processing ammonia very well.
And a third. With so much stuff done in what seems to be a short amount of time, it is very very misleading.
Source 1
Part of a lecture from Richard Strickland Phd in biological oceanography.
http://courses.washington.edu/ocean101/Lex/Lecture27+.pdf
Source 2
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1001074210604597
Hanhua Hu Phd in hydrobiology employed by the Chinese academy of sciences.
The sources you have listed were piecemeal from an article of yes a highly educated and respected member of our community. But the points of causation you have made are not present in his work.
Part of a lecture from Richard Strickland Phd in biological oceanography.
http://courses.washington.edu/ocean101/Lex/Lecture27+.pdf
Source 2
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1001074210604597
Hanhua Hu Phd in hydrobiology employed by the Chinese academy of sciences.
The sources you have listed were piecemeal from an article of yes a highly educated and respected member of our community. But the points of causation you have made are not present in his work.
dansreef
Well-Known Member
Thank you all for an entertaining period of reading R2R this morning, drinking coffee and laughing.... I am not sure why anyone at R2R is even giving the OP this platform to spout his garbage.
I applaud Randy for not coming on here and responding as it would have only given MrTang more credence regardless of whether Randy agreed with him or not. Red Sea should shut this troll down as he is doing more damage to their brand than anything else. To make the claims, unsubstantiated and flawed in corroborating materials, really does make them look bad.
Thanks again for the amusement. Carry On!
I applaud Randy for not coming on here and responding as it would have only given MrTang more credence regardless of whether Randy agreed with him or not. Red Sea should shut this troll down as he is doing more damage to their brand than anything else. To make the claims, unsubstantiated and flawed in corroborating materials, really does make them look bad.
Thanks again for the amusement. Carry On!
Crustaceon
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No3 levels in the ocean are at constant detectable level that never gets depleted by products like NoPox. You’re comparing an open environment with unlimited nutrients to a closed one with a limited nutrients. This is why tanks that run levels exactly at NSW fail unless continually replaced on a daily, if not on an hourly basis with water that has trace nitrates and phosphates. Nutrient levels in NSW get depleted very quickly due to being so low in the first place. I live in San Diego and we have “Scripps water” out here. It’s NSW sources from the end of Scripps Pier and supplies Scripps aquarium. It’s also free to the public via a spigot and hose that has a knack of being stolen on a regular basis, lol. Reefers out here even go as far as doing constant water changes using Scripps water and some have large holding tanks full of it at their houses that they replenish periodically using a truck with a large tank in the bed.
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No3 levels in the ocean are at constant detectable level that never gets depleted by products like NoPox. You’re comparing an open environment with unlimited nutrients to a closed one with a limited nutrients. This is why tanks that run levels exactly at NSW fail unless continually replaced on a daily, if not on an hourly basis with water that has trace nitrates and phosphates. Nutrient levels in NSW get depleted very quickly due to being so low in the first place. I live in San Diego and we have “Scripps water” out here. It’s NSW sources from the end of Scripps Pier and supplies Scripps aquarium. It’s also free to the public via a spigot and hose that has a knack of being stolen on a regular basis, lol. Reefers out here even go as far as doing constant water changes using Scripps water and some have large holding tanks full of it at their houses that they replenish periodically using a truck with a large tank in the bed.
N03 levels of NSW are undetectable with most aquarium hobby test kits (below .1 ppm).
Randy reccomended they be kept in an aquarium to under .2 ppm.
I plan on removing organics before the break down into Nitrates using my top of the line Red Sea skimmer.
You can check them out here:
https://www.redseafish.com/hardware/skimmers/reefer-skimmers/
Here is my Harvard educated source: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/
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Real talk though, are you suggesting that the Red Sea skimmers are not top of the line?
They are the only Reef Spec skimmers and feature the following:
- Ergonomic diffusion chamber evenly disperses the fine bubbles created by the PSK pump across the skimmer cone, without reducing air or water flow.
- Quiet operation, with vibration absorbing components and a large air intake silencer.
- 3 assembly options for flexible positioning of the pump inlet and regulation valve, according to your sump.
I don't understand what all the confusion is as to how to cure dinos or what ever when there is the ultimate answer to all problems!!
I found Dr. pepper the better algae cure for any type. also while i watch my tank i can have a glass.
Top of the line red sea skimmer....
Looks like a bubble magus knockoff. Same diffuser plate, same "gear drive", heck even the same exact motor mounting tabs.
Matter of fact, the elite line they just came out with even has a sicce psk pump. But it costs waaaaaayyyyyy less.
Looks like a bubble magus knockoff. Same diffuser plate, same "gear drive", heck even the same exact motor mounting tabs.
Matter of fact, the elite line they just came out with even has a sicce psk pump. But it costs waaaaaayyyyyy less.
The one in my sump.
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