6k Setup and Still Issues...

MrTang13

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So, I have a total overkill Red Sea Reefer 250 Deluxe. I’m turning over the water 100x in an hour with 2 mp40s and have a NYOS 120 skimmer. 60 lbs of live Rock. Apex controls the temperature to a 1 degree range.

My nitrates are now reading >1. Calcium is 400-420, dkh is 8.

Well, my corals look awful and I have what I think is a massive diatom bloom. Most the sand bed and rock is covered with this brown rust/hair algae.

What’s causing this? I’m only using distilled water for top, so I don’t know why phosphates or silicates would be high.

Could this be part of a cycle? The tank is 2 months old but I used only high end, pre cured live rock.
 

nezw0001

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In my opinion probably just new tank blues. It seems like it takes about a year for everything to fall in place and start cranking. I moved an established system to a new location about a year ago and am just finishing up 'post move/new tank blues'

Is it possible that these are dinos and not diatoms? Dinos love a new tank with ulra low nitrates.
 

W1ngz

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Phosphates come from food, might be in your rock, and any number of other things you may have added. It can be a bit of a let down to drop a lot of cash and end up with algae, but you gotta give it time. Mixing a bunch of live, dead and man-made things into one glass box to make an eco system will take some time to get it's mojo. Just remember the biochemistry and natural forces at work really don't care how much you spent on the gear.

Physically remove and siphon out what you can, keep tracking your parameters to keep it as stable as you can. If you see your alk or calcium is off, gently nudge them back over a day or two rather than all at once, and do your water changes. It'll turn around, and then you'll get that feeling of pride and wonder everyone got the first time they saw growth in your corals.
 

Dhoggs

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I agree with the other members...your tank is still young and will go through the “ugly” stages. Even you have the best and most expensive equipments, all tanks will go through this stage as your tank matures. Buy RODI water for your top off instead of distilled water. Invest in a RODI unit which is around $150-$200.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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You've got to hand guide it out. Certain cheats make you hand guide it less, no cheats means hand guiding, cleaning, removing daily if required. Doing what it takes to claim your real estate is what's required, let no invader amass and waste no time tinkering with param testing and ID

Remove, repeat, seek ways documented to repeat less

Having a repeat invasion problem during constant manual removal is one thing, having an invader show up and persist with no repeated removal efforts is another.

The common approach is to leave it alone, hope it goes away.

This is why my tank rework threads, invasion undo threads, are about a thousand pages searchable. All due to that initial purposeful farming... as we've been told to do by every cycling article made (participants in tank rework threads wish they'd hand guided initially)

Ways to kill/control your invasion variables:

Work up to full production lighting don't start with it

Any tank with a water column so large the keeper can't impart a full water change on demand better have a giant UV plumbed in, doesn't have to be always on, but there if needed. A pond sterilizer, not an aquarium sterilizer. They're not that much $ on Amazon. We could have saved half a mil worth large tanks with that one protocol alone (zoos and public displays need no convincing there)

Have an accessible rock structure in the beginning, ways you can lift out and access rocks for a quick cheat clean vs altering the water chemistry in your whole system for something rarely parameter caused

Have a cloudless sandbed pre cleaned at the start, so the occasional cleaning access to guide out early sand colonizers like diatoms and cyano doesn't stir up waste.

You should know thousands of reefers opt out of early invasion, and into total compliance of the aquarium 24x7, and we collect those examples in threads. See any pico reef ever made. Large tankers do not have to purposefully invade their tank, then spend months trying to fund uninvade it, they just don't have to do that.
 
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MrTang13

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So I was finally content with the idea of New Tank Syndrome until I did a little digging and discovered my diatoms are actually Dino’s.




Am I screwed? I’m going to be testing phosphates in the next day or two.

I see people online instructing to tear down the tank and boil the live rock. I just can’t stomach boiling 1k worth of live rock and would have nowhere to house my fish.

Also, is RO/DI really preferred over distilled?

Finally, thank you all for the warm welcome. I’m hoping I can battle this out and join you all
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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This is early stage invasion, you have time to save the tank depending on actions taken. You do not have a nutrient imbalance, you have an unlucky hitchhiker issue, so don't begin by adjusting params. Begin by initial steps up top.
 

Nburg's Reef

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I would recommend this video. Talks about coral nutrition and that it can take 8-18 months before you can expect corals to really take off. Even WWC says the first year of a tank, you should just expect coral to survive and maybe grow a little. We are in the early staged of really understanding the best way to feed corals. the amount of money you spend on equipment doesn't mean you will have success, just makes success easier.
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/vide...-i-feed-corals-the-brs-wwc-system-ep15-brstv/
 
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MrTang13

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I don’t understand what you mean by “opt out of early invasion” and “total compliance”

Would this be an effective UV sterilizer for this condition: https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/emperor-aquatics-smart-uv-40-watt.html

Are you recommending a pond sterilizer for reasons beyond budget?

So my plan is to kill the lights for 3 days, add a UV sterilizer, and keep blowing the dinos off corals and rocks.

Is there anything else?
 

Bossman

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The pictures show minimal diatoms IMO. My Red Sea 260 is just over a year old and has gone through many stages through the last year; bacteria blooms, diatoms, brown hair algae, green hair algae. You have just seen the beginning of the issues you will see with your tank. Most of these problems came within the first few months. But the tank didn't become really stable until the last few months.

Vacuum out the gravel, brush the rock and do your water changes. Try to keep your parameters in check. Have you researched what it takes to cycle a tank? BRS has some great videos that talk about the biological cycle. One of their last videos recommends a 4-month cycle before adding coral.

A good thing to watch
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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There’s one thing I’m certain of

Blending methods is not the same as sticking a given method through. The hardest thing is choosing a method to deal with your invasion, the second hardest is not abandoning the method in eight days vs seeing it through, so many competing methods.

By opt out I mean the first day you saw a strand it was removed and never allowed to mass. You would be showing a tank of zero invader, but having to clean daily to attain that condition (seeking ways to work less) if you were opting out of the invasion...allowing it to build up as an expected uglies phase (even though we are constantly told to do that) is still opting into housing the invader and letting it mass.

The way we cycle affects how we deal with tank invasions because cycling authors linked early invasions as part of cycling vs just handling the bacteria aspect alone. The invasion part is unrelated to being able to process ammonia bioloading. To be invaded is a separate choice.

Dino invasions are shown across reefing having nothing to do with age of tank. New and old...

A bad hitchhiker (And no quarantine protocol for imports) caused your issues- your live rock is already aged the brs video is about bringing up unaged rocks. We can tell from the macro pic details your live rock is aged, don’t boil it. Choose a dino remediation method and stick it through.

I mentioned pond uv cuz it’s cheap and easy to oversize, you want something grossly overrated this is war, depending on how you choose to handle it.

It’s not about uv or lights off or nutrient tinkering, although any one or a combo can work. It’s about reinstating directed hand removal, making the target unable to mass. Then running those strong preventatives. The hand access portion was missing the whole time, both cyclers and dino tank workers will tell you to leave the invader in place, but I never would. This is why choosing a remediation method and sticking with it is so hard.

How many tanks did we lose to dinos here? We never hesitated once.

No params asked for

No ID needed, just rip cleans.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445


Since your tank is large I do think it’s wise to -thoroughly- hand siphon it clean and install large uv and try a true dark blackout for three days with slow light ramp up, not bleaching strong light on day four.

If this doesn’t work, if you have a virile strain, then we’ve not messed up your other nutrient tuning options at all.

If we thought you had simple starting diatoms nobody would be concerned. We think you have dinos, known tank wreckers and they simply hitchhiked in, like catching a cold. Nothing bad in your tank caused them, they rode in on that frag above into an environment that allows massing.
 
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brandon429

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Agreed, my advice is to apply them in the clean uninvaded condition, after work, after doing the opposite that allows them to fully takeover. The initial cleaning which may work itself (and imparts a new habit to handle future invasion risks) doesn’t remove his ability to nutrient tune and add competitors, ideally in the presence of less target mass, less for them to work on.



I just advise early physical export -while- we sort out long term care as it’s the only thing saving tanks consistently

Largest dino thread on web shows patterns, how tough it can be
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/d...-tired-of-battling-altogether.293318/page-314

I think UV, the physical control aspect, resonates as much or more than the nutrient tuning part for the reported saves based on pages and updates. I'd still for sure use the right nutrient and pod balances to compete against the dino but in later phases, after hand tuning is evaluated. Used too soon, those methods will head off hand removal altogether.

I think if there was a stronger initial action sequence, that dino thread would have more cures than it does. It is an exceptional reference for best actions taken with full on mass in place, some tanks have been fixed solely via the water
 
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MrTang13

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So are you effectively saying there is a good shot I’m going to lose this tank?

With the amount of livestock turnover in LFS tanks, they clearly have been exposed to the same hitchhitckers, yet the tanks show no signs.

I’m also having a little trouble understanding your post.

Is nutrient tuning a way of saying increasing nitrates via increased feeding?
 

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