6k Setup and Still Issues...

[nezw0001]

I wouldn’t give up hope just yet. Start by adding a UV sterilizer. Be sure to get one that is over sized for your system.

I would then dose nitrate to bring your nitrates up a bit and check phosphate levels. Do a search and start researching Dino treatment. Algaebarn is a great place to order pods from

 

[brandon429]

I think it's savable. The threads linked in both the sand rinse thread and that dinos thread are a trove of patterns.

You're dealing with a risky strain to have, among invaders, that's all. Check out the threads for patterns, take what you will from them. Each has pros and cons, but having those years of data on the topic all in one link is the real gold.

There is no right way to proceed, you simply select a given method and attempt but those threads linked at least have before and after pics to analyze

 

[lapin]

I would opt for a big UV since you all ready have broke the bank. Work that angle and see what the results are. They can be handy down the road if some other form of invader needs addressing in a stern manor.

 

[dantimdad]

OK. I am begging you to not do anything at this point.

I respect Brandon, but, he is extremist a lot of times. You have a new tank. Please let it work it's course.

I have been doing this for 30 years. I have helped setup hundreds of tanks and counseled on even more.

JUST BE PATIENT!

You are not going to "Lose this tank"!!!

Trust me on this. Just wait.

I just setup a little cube tank from scratch and got an algae I had never seen before and it was an invasion unlike I had seen. Ya know what I did? NOTHING!

I waited and in two weeks it's 90% gone. I have not changed water or filtration or anything.

 

[brandon429]

Do you have any work threads to link, before and after pics for dinos


I would agree we are advising very different actions at this point. had hoped that by linking the largest dino thread on the web, it might get a few clicks to see the stuff is serious and has taken more reefs than the practiced know what to do with.





Those guys are combining top science, and current tank examples, to get about a forty percent compliance rate for those strains...not sure it’s dismissed as easy without some recent thread work, linked for us to read

To simply siphon out the masses cannot harm nor degrade either approach. There is no dino treatment method that is harmed by removing the mass of cells, we keep posting links showing that part as helpful (uv / sand rinse controls)



Invasion threads will never have fully agreeing sides...this helps to keep selection options fresh, all I can do is post links of people asking for help with before and afters/ take from the patterns what anyone will. But for sure at least check the links for patterns, see what it takes to tame the many

catch me in chat if you want it handled we always do fine in chat. Half the posts on the sand rinse thread are chat outcomes.
B

 

[DSC reef]

OK. I am begging you to not do anything at this point.

I respect Brandon, but, he is extremist a lot of times. You have a new tank. Please let it work it's course.

I have been doing this for 30 years. I have helped setup hundreds of tanks and counseled on even more.

JUST BE PATIENT!

You are not going to "Lose this tank"!!!

Trust me on this. Just wait.

I just setup a little cube tank from scratch and got an algae I had never seen before and it was an invasion unlike I had seen. Ya know what I did? NOTHING!

I waited and in two weeks it's 90% gone. I have not changed water or filtration or anything.

Good info here and agreed.

 

[dantimdad]

Do you have any cure threads to link, before and after pics for dinos


I would agree we are advising very different actions at this point. I hoped that by linking the largest dino thread on the web, it might get a few clicks to see the stuff is serious and has taken more reefs than the practiced know what to do with

Those guys are combining top science, and tank examples, to get about a forty percent compliance rate for those strains...not sure it’s dismissed as easy without some recent thread work, linked.

To simply siphon out the masses cannot harm nor degrade either approach. There is no dino treatment method that is harmed by removing the mass of cells, we keep posting links showing that part as helpful (uv / sand rinse controls)

Invasion threads will never have fully agreeing sides...this helps to keep selection options fresh, all I can do is post links of people asking for help with before and afters/ take from the patterns what anyone will. But for sure at least check the links for patterns

Brandon,

You said it best when you said we are suggesting different approaches.

The constant cure threads are what got us in this boat to begin with. They have caused very aggressive, mutated strains of algae and disease.

I will take my 30 years of experience and folks like PaulB decades and keep keeping on.

Sorry you don't agree, but, this OP has nothing to lose by giving it 30 days waiting. He has a ton of work and fretting and chasing by using another method.

Just be patient.

Science can be wrong. Believe me, I am living proof. I wasn't supposed to be walking unassisted after my stroke by now because scientific proof said 1 year at least. I haven't used a cane since week 7. Went back to work in week 8.

 

[brandon429]

going back to reread the last several pages to see updates posted in the dinos thread


@reeferfoxx been working some tanks, respects-those are not small jobs either. Dinos are requiring proactive control there

They're not using a cleaning action, but a bunch of UV warefare and nutrient-balance suppression designed to produce clean after pics, action nonetheless. Large tanks aren't practical to take apart

That dino thread is one of the most important threads in reefing because it gives large tankers in a state of invasion the best chance of being looked at by the top practitioners of the water tuning method.

I don’t recall many other as-active 300 pages of work examples.


https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/d...-tired-of-battling-altogether.293318/page-315


We are able to use ID pics there to know the strain at hand here, help in choosing the plan. Helps to confirm even if you have dinos

 

[W1ngz]

Dinos aren't the end of your tank if you keep them in check until they run their course. Whoever's advice you decide to take (personally, I beat dinos riding it out - a UV sterilizer, and siphoning what/when I could), know this and do not ever ever forget it:

But no matter what, do not EVER EVER EVER boil, bake or pressure blast anything from a tank. That can render various toxins aerosol. They are perfectly harmless and neutralized very very quickly when they are in salt water, but can be dangerous if you cause them to be inhaled from the air. They don't get in the air by themselves.

 

[PSXerholic]

Long story short….. it's your biology. Check out my build thread. If you read through it, it will pay back ;-)

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a...-sps-reeftank-up-within-a-week.339591/page-44

-Andre

 

[vetteguy53081]

Distilled water better than tap but not a top choice. Go RO water. Clean up crew?/ ( crabs and snails)
Get a bunch mixed snails made up of croceus, turbo grazer, margarita and nassarius. Also a yellow eye tang or lawnmower blenny will help rid of the greenies.

 

[brandon429]

Andre the tank is great I read the last five pages. Pls make a custom application for this tank here in the early stages of challenge I'm interested to see it. Your tank is running under good control and you have a lot of substrate area on the line, a lot, and a new truck's worth of top shelf corals on the line as well that is a great example tank

What are the key extrapolations between your tank and this one in early challenge phase, key actions he can implement

I see UV as a recurring theme anywhere I look in successful large tank planning.

Saw nitrate control on your setup specifically, a nutrient limiting approach with a key balance of phosphates as well/ and clean sand that appears to be physically worked clean occasionally?

What are his Dino specific action options

Should he wait things out for a while and take no action until a certain date? I noticed your tank didn't have dinos in the pages I saw, will go check some prior pages so I'm wondering how items or actions can be arranged to prevent OP tank from becoming a dino challenge

 

[MrTang13]

Isn’t distilled water better than RO/DI?

I would assume the distilation procedures of a company like Poland Spring outperform a home 3 stage RO/DI filter.

My plan is to complete a 3 day blackout. After 1 full day, I’ve seen nitrates rise from undetectable to 2 PPM.

Once the blackout is complete, I’m going to be hooking up an Apex DOS, which I will use to elevate my pH from 7.8 to hopefully 8.2 consistently.

I also am going to decrease the intensity of my lights and dose Microbacter 7.

Also, after a 1 day blackout, I noticed virtually all the Dino’s are gone. Good sign or bad?

Do you think this is sufficient?

 

[W1ngz]

IMO you might be trying to do too many things at one time. In a brand new tank with a little handful of corals, you really don't have any need for dosing. I would shelve the DOS for the time being.

The microbacter won't hurt, but I don't think it will help the dino situation. Beware of stores selling you snake oil - there is literally a bottle of something that claims to cure EVERY single malady that can befall a tank, and in the end you just keep adding more 'stuff' to the water, making the situation more complex.

Your blackout has caused the dinos to recede, they're definitely not dead. Some have released their nutrients back into the water. Do a 20% water change to remove some of the nutrients from the water, AFTER allowing the full 3 day blackout. A 3-day blackout means not less than 72 hours, otherwise you lose ground if you jump on it the morning of the 3rd day when you may only be 55-60 hours in.

The only way to know if your distilled vs RODI water is 'better' is to get a TDS meter and check. Ideally you'll want a 5 stage, not a 3 stage, as that probably won't include the DI component of the RODI system. Home RODI setups are very effective because there's much less handling and processing between filtration and application.

 

[brandon429]

Really good plan. Randy HF has an article on dinos and pH control. None of those actions are coral harming (ramp lights back up slowly no burn) which is how you know they're at least safe to use

Being directed against the target cannot make it worse, you begin to learn about its particular characters among your tank variables by working it this way. Always remove the dinos as best as possible before all these events, judge based on growback. Don't judge methods on their ability to let you skip the unamassing step, is my recommend based on the large sand rinse thread.

Blackouts are associated with dino works as well we see in patterns over time, and if yours stays gone it's a miracle but possible. Likely they're just receding during diurnal phasing but it still is an intercept point for them in that state for items like UV. Blackouts became part of the approach for the limited time they lent full cures and the posts are there but rare.

In that big dinos thread blackouts are seen and applied. It's a safe plan, whether it works can't say but it's what I would consider. letting it sit there and gain cells is the opposite of what I would do. No method would be tried as a killer of dinos, they'd all be tried as growback preventers after having removed that target by hand, with work. Add the bacterial additives in the clean, uninvaded condition such as full hand removal of target, then lights out done correctly, then mb7 after it all. Ramp lights slowly after a blackout. No full production lighting next day, overcast ramp up simulation.


I use distilled water from wal mart or a gas station, distilled not drinking, and it's fine. In no way is distilled water implicated in invasion science. Plus we've got like ten thousand pico reefers by now on distilled just the same, in much smaller containers that register imbalances much faster than a large tank. Distilled is good to go. I've topped up with Dasani water before when I was out of distilled, bit of diatoms on the glass for wiping no biggie.

 

[Dhoggs]

I agree with W1ngz. Stop being so focused on chasing numbers. Stability is key. Be patient. Also, 3 day blackout should be a 3 day COMPLETE blackout. Do not break the blackout by checking your tank and letting light in. Again, patience is key.

Also, 3 stage filter at home is an RO system at best not an RODI. There is a difference between the 2. If you dont have a place to setup RODI system at your home, buy RODI water from your LPS which is better than using distilled water majority of the time.

 

[MrTang13]

I still don’t understand specifically, why RODI is better than industrial grade distilled water?

Does anyone have a specific reason to believe this?

 

[W1ngz]

I still don’t understand specifically, why RODI is better than industrial grade distilled water?

Does anyone have a specific reason to believe this?

It has nothing at all to do with 'believing'. It's called Total Dissolved Solids. It's a very measurable thing with a 12$ TDS pen. Measure the TDS in your distilled water. RODI water has 0 TDS at the outlet of the RODI system. After storage and handling, my storage barrel creeps up to 1 or 2 TDS.

Theoretically, distilled water also has 0 TDS, AT THE MOMENT OF DISTILLATION. It then picks up impurities from pipes, storage containers, taps and the very air itself. You'll have to measure the TDS to know exactly what it is once you get it home. My bet is higher than 10 TDS.

 

[reefwiser]

https://www.thoughtco.com/distilled-versus-deionized-water-609435

But water is not the issue.
If you are getting dinoflagellates is is caused by an imbalance in the biology of the bacteria in your tank. Your tank is so clean that Dinoflagellates are the only algaes that can live in the aquarium and they out compete all other forums of algae. In today's world of fish keeping you can over filter the water to the point that the biology of the tank tips out of control. It takes quite a bit of time to get Dinoflagellates under control and it is not something that happens with a 3 day black out. As they will come back if the conditions of the tank premitt them too.

 

[MrTang13]

Distilled water by definition has zero TDS.

So I still don’t understand the claim that RO/DI is superior.