The microbiology of reef tank cycling.
- Thread starter brandon429
- Start date
- Tagged users None
OP
OP
Those growths can occur in any reef, new, middle aged or old, it’s all about what we allow to express. Diatoms are mostly related to new sandbed silt, we have our entrants pre rinse the sandbed before use, pretty much stops diatoms. In the nuisance algae forum we see gha expressing in literally all types of tanks, here we prevent all gha problems by simple disallowance - we lift up the rock and kill it outside the tank!
OP
OP
Edited page one intro to match updated cycling rules and to focus our take on the financial impacts of allowing the notion that reef cycles stall, or have ever stalled.
20 pages here, not one stall had happened or will ever happen. All beginning bioload lives because reef cycles cannot stall, and a specific way of proofing ammonia tells us the measured start date if preferred
we confidently upgrade, downgrade, move, clean and relocate reefs here knowing cycles cannot stall. Included a link to fish forum disease research before adding fish, since cycle wait time is dead in reefing.
20 pages here, not one stall had happened or will ever happen. All beginning bioload lives because reef cycles cannot stall, and a specific way of proofing ammonia tells us the measured start date if preferred
we confidently upgrade, downgrade, move, clean and relocate reefs here knowing cycles cannot stall. Included a link to fish forum disease research before adding fish, since cycle wait time is dead in reefing.
OP
OP
Reef tank swap
Hey guys wasn’t sure where to add this question. I have a 150g cube that I’m moving into a 65g jbj aio. I currently have 40 lbs of new live sand and 30 gallons of salt water in the jbj. Can I safely add the rest of the water from the 150g, live rock and live stock into the jbj? Or will this...
www.reef2reef.com
easy skip cycle transfer on an upgrade.
Hey Brandon. Wanted to thank you for this thread. Read it a couple times. I decided to go with group A rock, Dr. Tims one and only, and dose with ammonia for a clean start. Its been wet for 17 days. Pretty sure its cycled or pretty darn close. Ammonia tested .02 on the 10th, dosed to 1ppm(confirmed with follow up test 30 min later) . Tested the next day and it was down to .5. If I understand correctly that is a confirmed digestion test? Also I thought I read on this thread that in your opinion you would start with some hardy corals and a few snails 1st. Is that correct?
OP
OP
Confirmed 100% thank you for posting
the ammonia moved down even once when in the presence of rocks and or sand surface area a few days means cycled / can begin with bioloading safely / can’t be unstuck by water changes
*i wanted to link you something truly matched to your tanks start:
a complete three month roadmap of when to take action and when not to, and how much to act, for guiding a white rock start into absolute perfection
ten pages, we’ve not mentioned nitrate or phosphate readings. that should stand out
we haven’t asked for any param readings
we are specifically using pico bowl technique, in/out water change + feed exercise, to keto max his reef into being ripped lol
any size reef wants protein in, water out, over and over.
www.reef2reef.com
the ammonia moved down even once when in the presence of rocks and or sand surface area a few days means cycled / can begin with bioloading safely / can’t be unstuck by water changes
*i wanted to link you something truly matched to your tanks start:
a complete three month roadmap of when to take action and when not to, and how much to act, for guiding a white rock start into absolute perfection
ten pages, we’ve not mentioned nitrate or phosphate readings. that should stand out
we haven’t asked for any param readings
we are specifically using pico bowl technique, in/out water change + feed exercise, to keto max his reef into being ripped lol
any size reef wants protein in, water out, over and over.
Cycling a new Biocube 32
Hello all! My name is Daniel from Florida and I’m starting to get into the reef hobby. I have been cycling my tank for two weeks now and logging it into an app. I have recently been gifted a live rock with some good amount of coralline on it. I also got some water from and established tank. My...
www.reef2reef.com
Here is the link to my build.
www.reef2reef.com
Build Thread - 34 gal Red Sea Reefer 170 build
Pretty much spent all of February gathering info and trying to decide if I should jump back in after about 10 yrs. away from the hobby. Seeing how far the technology has come got me excited so I jumped in to planning a mixed reef. Back in the day I had mostly soft corals, a clown fish pair with...
www.reef2reef.com
Thanks. I'll check that out for sure.Confirmed 100% thank you for posting
the ammonia moved down even once when in the presence of rocks and or sand surface area a few days means cycled / can begin with bioloading safely / can’t be unstuck by water changes
*i wanted to link you something truly matched to your tanks start:
a complete three month roadmap of when to take action and when not to, and how much to act, for guiding a white rock start into absolute perfection
ten pages, we’ve not mentioned nitrate or phosphate readings. that should stand out
we haven’t asked for any readings
Cycling a new Biocube 32
Hello all! My name is Daniel from Florida and I’m starting to get into the reef hobby. I have been cycling my tank for two weeks now and logging it into an app. I have recently been gifted a live rock with some good amount of coralline on it. I also got some water from and established tank. My...
richarddeweerd
Active Member
@brandon429 Thanks for the write-up, i'll probably have to read it a few times to get it fully.
But here a quick question. I'm going to get a new tank, my current tank is 8 gallons and has 6 or 7 pounds of life rock in there for about 2.5 years.
My new tank will be 105 gallons and about 110 lbs of Real Reef rock. Would you advice to move my current fish and corals to their new home from day 1?
BTW, I'm using real ocean water, we are living close to the sea and my LFS is always using that also for his private tanks
My current setup is running great and btw I added my first fish about 2 weeks after I started it.
But here a quick question. I'm going to get a new tank, my current tank is 8 gallons and has 6 or 7 pounds of life rock in there for about 2.5 years.
My new tank will be 105 gallons and about 110 lbs of Real Reef rock. Would you advice to move my current fish and corals to their new home from day 1?
BTW, I'm using real ocean water, we are living close to the sea and my LFS is always using that also for his private tanks
My current setup is running great and btw I added my first fish about 2 weeks after I started it.
OP
OP
hey thank you for posting for sure, thats a very neat multi blend approach.
-yes, relocating the existing setup into far more gallons will skip cycle, bioload is not increasing beyond norms in a direct transfer. Increase direct feeding of corals to keep their internal nutrient stores safe; what the nitrate and phos read in the new + dilution system wont matter if corals are fed and fat.
Live rock does not build up a bacteria level to 'match' the number of fish we provide, thats a falsehood in the hobby. Live rock can always, always, instantly handle more bioload than what it carries without ramp up. even if you did add more fish it wont recycle, but for a direct transfer it for sure wont.
ramp up lights safely, the tendency is to punch through the new water depth/dont burn em. go light on whites, heavy on blues for the new bigger tank and ramp up intensity. max 9 hour photoperiod is nice, i use that for years.
your ocean water access is a liquid form of live rock bacteria, millions of cycling bac come from ocean water at all times, they ride the little rafts and such that float in ocean water and seed every where that water goes. its great stuff. that will add redundant bac to already ok bac.
*I forgot about real reef rock does that brand show up wet or dry
-yes, relocating the existing setup into far more gallons will skip cycle, bioload is not increasing beyond norms in a direct transfer. Increase direct feeding of corals to keep their internal nutrient stores safe; what the nitrate and phos read in the new + dilution system wont matter if corals are fed and fat.
Live rock does not build up a bacteria level to 'match' the number of fish we provide, thats a falsehood in the hobby. Live rock can always, always, instantly handle more bioload than what it carries without ramp up. even if you did add more fish it wont recycle, but for a direct transfer it for sure wont.
ramp up lights safely, the tendency is to punch through the new water depth/dont burn em. go light on whites, heavy on blues for the new bigger tank and ramp up intensity. max 9 hour photoperiod is nice, i use that for years.
your ocean water access is a liquid form of live rock bacteria, millions of cycling bac come from ocean water at all times, they ride the little rafts and such that float in ocean water and seed every where that water goes. its great stuff. that will add redundant bac to already ok bac.
*I forgot about real reef rock does that brand show up wet or dry
OP
OP
98% of instant skip cycle reefs at all marine aquarium conventions are doing tank transfers of existing activated surfaces, that's what you are about to do only you w have 3x the input source for bac, covered!
richarddeweerd
Active Member
Thanks!
AFAIK Real Reef Rock it is dried before shipping. And as you probably guessed I intend to move everything to the new tank, including the rocks
OP
OP
then those dry rocks just sit there, taking on bac from all thats added, you dont need to add bottle bac in this procedure. Bac are getting in via existing surfaces, ocean water a plenty.
Unless you just absolutely had to add 15 new fish (not good for disease protocols) then simply moving this over into a clean, non cloudy system (rinse any sand you use with tap, then RO water to perfect clarity, dont cloud up a new reef) will not hurt it will work for sure.
in 20 days ish, after being in the water, those dry rocks will be cycle activated. this is a no test tank skip cycle coming up, we dont have to test for anything it will work as planned.
*if you buy all new sand, pre rinse it with tap until perfect clarity, then RO water, its ready for sure.
if you move over current sand, same, we dont care about sandbed bacteria they're not needed. We preserve rock bac, prevent all cloudy starts by manual rinsing, and do wonders with that alone here.
Unless you just absolutely had to add 15 new fish (not good for disease protocols) then simply moving this over into a clean, non cloudy system (rinse any sand you use with tap, then RO water to perfect clarity, dont cloud up a new reef) will not hurt it will work for sure.
in 20 days ish, after being in the water, those dry rocks will be cycle activated. this is a no test tank skip cycle coming up, we dont have to test for anything it will work as planned.
*if you buy all new sand, pre rinse it with tap until perfect clarity, then RO water, its ready for sure.
if you move over current sand, same, we dont care about sandbed bacteria they're not needed. We preserve rock bac, prevent all cloudy starts by manual rinsing, and do wonders with that alone here.
richarddeweerd
Active Member
My LFS also said that, nice to have someone backing that up.
He will deliver the tank, we fill it with the rocks, then add the pre-warmed water and then transfer the current rocks and animals.
Basically its just adding a "bit" of rock and a lot of fresh water
He will deliver the tank, we fill it with the rocks, then add the pre-warmed water and then transfer the current rocks and animals.
Basically its just adding a "bit" of rock and a lot of fresh water
OP
OP
those dry rocks might cure out, leach some waste and make you work harder to maintain algae balance, so be it.
dont go off on filtration schemes, po4 measures, nitrate tinkering, not worth it. simply step up direct access of surfaces externally as guidance, and always make water params match what it takes to grow coral-not what it takes to starve algae. thats key
dont make a rock stack so big that in a year you refuse to access it, when bryopsis shows up on the very bottom structure. we wouldnt let that grow, left in place, then dose fluconazole in hopes of a fix
we would lift out the rock and set it in your kitchen sink, corals attached.
debride the algae directly off, precision, with a knife and then put peroxide on the former spot; rinse, and put back an algae free rock.
if you want to be different than 4000 large tank algae challenge issues, it's direct access philosophy that will save your tank. make your aquascape allow for this eventual murphy's law requirement. be willing. have clean sands, so that when you remove rocks nothing clouds...
maybe you wont have to hand guide...easy ramp up lighting, low fish bioloading, a nice cloudless pre rinse sets your new tank to good balance. But if you see something whisker up on your rocks, in case new ones are curing and adding to the work, then be accessing your stuff vs tinkering with water.
it will stop one day in the future, and this is the price of using dry rocks to start. increased initial predicted simple access, to save your reef before something else takes it from you one day.
dont go off on filtration schemes, po4 measures, nitrate tinkering, not worth it. simply step up direct access of surfaces externally as guidance, and always make water params match what it takes to grow coral-not what it takes to starve algae. thats key
dont make a rock stack so big that in a year you refuse to access it, when bryopsis shows up on the very bottom structure. we wouldnt let that grow, left in place, then dose fluconazole in hopes of a fix
we would lift out the rock and set it in your kitchen sink, corals attached.
debride the algae directly off, precision, with a knife and then put peroxide on the former spot; rinse, and put back an algae free rock.
if you want to be different than 4000 large tank algae challenge issues, it's direct access philosophy that will save your tank. make your aquascape allow for this eventual murphy's law requirement. be willing. have clean sands, so that when you remove rocks nothing clouds...
maybe you wont have to hand guide...easy ramp up lighting, low fish bioloading, a nice cloudless pre rinse sets your new tank to good balance. But if you see something whisker up on your rocks, in case new ones are curing and adding to the work, then be accessing your stuff vs tinkering with water.
it will stop one day in the future, and this is the price of using dry rocks to start. increased initial predicted simple access, to save your reef before something else takes it from you one day.
OP
OP
inputting all that rock at once increases risk due to inaccessibility.
you are safer installing a third that much, perfecting growth/guidance and corals on the initial amounts (easy to access for predicted needed hand guiding) and then add more rock later. if ever.
I know thats easier said than done, a slow built scape, but Im simply reverse engineering 4000 wrecked algae large tank threads you can take from it snippets lol
you might get lucky, some people have the algae game lucky. Its all about access for the unlucky though...we can save any reef tank in distress if we simply have full access to it: all water, all sand and all rocks, without reasons to hesitate.
"I cant access my rocks due to: "
is the number one killer of corals/whole tank startovers in this hobby.
you are safer installing a third that much, perfecting growth/guidance and corals on the initial amounts (easy to access for predicted needed hand guiding) and then add more rock later. if ever.
I know thats easier said than done, a slow built scape, but Im simply reverse engineering 4000 wrecked algae large tank threads you can take from it snippets lol
you might get lucky, some people have the algae game lucky. Its all about access for the unlucky though...we can save any reef tank in distress if we simply have full access to it: all water, all sand and all rocks, without reasons to hesitate.
"I cant access my rocks due to: "
is the number one killer of corals/whole tank startovers in this hobby.
richarddeweerd
Active Member
I will definitely just stack the rocks and not glue them together.
OP
OP
Seneye, the #1 ammonia reader in the world, which we use to base a lot of information on in this thread, can also misread:
www.reef2reef.com
what doesnt ever, ever, ever fail is the microbiology of cycling and the fact that all reef tanks control ammonia similarly, without variation, and when that fails the visual cues in the tank will warn you
and if they dont, your tester is bad, regardless of the brand.
first seneye misread Ive ever seen. The visual cues in the reef didnt support free ammonia at unsafe levels, and there wasnt any.
Ammonia slowly climbing?
This is a one shot chance to get seneye feedback im just itching to know if they can report any reef tanks with rock and sand, post cycle, that didn’t run in the thousandths ppm turnover rate his answer above seems to confirm normal as day, you have some ammonia, based on -your- tanks measure...
www.reef2reef.com
what doesnt ever, ever, ever fail is the microbiology of cycling and the fact that all reef tanks control ammonia similarly, without variation, and when that fails the visual cues in the tank will warn you
and if they dont, your tester is bad, regardless of the brand.
first seneye misread Ive ever seen. The visual cues in the reef didnt support free ammonia at unsafe levels, and there wasnt any.
Similar threads
