The Mindstream is DEAD!! I'm getting mine soon!

[MnFish1]

Seems to me that it’s the price that everyone is going to pay. Also, Neptune charges you bi-monthly so it makes sense to compare that to the monthly charge for the mindstream. If Neptune offered an option to prepay for the full year, then it might make sense to compare that to the full year payment for the mindstream, but they don’t. Again, a useless argument from you.

Your insults are getting tiresome. If I buy a Mindstream or Neptune - for xxx dollars - what is the likelihood that I won't buy a years worth of reagents for both of them? Perhaps its not Mindstream thats behind the curve - perhaps its Neptune for not offering a full years worth of reagents at a lower price. The thing that surprises me is that you're pretending that any of this makes a difference. Most people here have said (myself included) that we're not going to just throw money at Mindstream - only to lose that money. Most people are going to wait until they are actually shipping and in peoples hands. Why are you wringing your hands protecting people from something they aren't planning to do?

 

[MnFish1]

The issue with the delayed shipment of the product is that you are paying upfront for a physical product that they aren’t going to ship for 6-8 weeks (if ever).

This is the type of comment that borders on 'trolling' to me. There is no reason to suggest that they may 'not ever' ship. Not at all. This post was about the Mindstream - I kind of dislike you just coming in and making unfounded statements that have nothing (or very little) to do with the OP.

 

[Paul Sands]

Well most people pay for 2 years of phone services or cable when they subscribe..all these services come with contacts and you and I happily pay it;)

Really? My phone service is like $150/ month for two phones. I should pay an entire year upfront? What discount do I get for doing that? What did you pay for your two years of service? Was that like a $2,000 payment to AT&T? I feel like we need a poll, because I have literally NEVER heard about someone paying for one or two years of phone or cable service upfront.

If you have to make up “facts”to prove your point, your point probably isn’t worth proving.

 

[road_runner]

I wonder how do we feel about:

Forcing people to upgrade their controllers 2 years before you release a product you asking consumer to change for?

Forcing people to buy full controller package at first without allowing them to upgrade head unit only and saying without full upgrade the new test equipment will not work. Then after a year you offer the head unit only

Releasing products that fail at consumer side, cause big issues, not admit it as a vendor instead quietly fix the design and keep selling or release v2 without offering to change the older units for free

Releasing products that work for a year or 2 while giving limited warranty that end before expected failures...

Sell probs that many user report not accurate and described as "trend monitoring not actual monitoring"

I can go on and on, every controller vendor is guilty of some or all of the above... since the reef keeper days. That's most reefers who been I'm this hobby for more than 10 years have changed their conteoller or equipments at least 3 times and have purchased new probs at least 5 times

Now: imagin you do not need to deal with all this nonsense...
I lt will be such peace of mind.

Let's just hope mind stream deliever..

 

[road_runner]

Really? My phone service is like $150/ month for two phones. I should pay an entire year upfront? What discount do I get for doing that? What did you pay for your two years of service? Was that like a $2,000 payment to AT&T? I feel like we need a poll, because I have literally NEVER heard about someone paying for one or two years of phone or cable service upfront.

If you have to make up “facts”to prove your point, your point probably isn’t worth proving.

You are paying for phone and plane. Same thing.
Honestly paul your arguments are funny and clearly just for sake or arguments.
From saying they can put memory for calibration data inside the water while ignoring any type of memory will require bias voltage and cannot be submerged
To claiming with such conviction the device is fraud..I do not know what is it exactly you are bothered by?

 

[User1]

The dissolved oxygen probe for the apex is 700. Dissolved oxygen is included in the mindstream...

Also note that if you read the Neptune product description on their portal they also call this out and says it is sold separately. It is a certified lab grade device. As you said it is expensive and triple the cost if not more of the actual PM3 module. And...it needs a new membrane every three months which also has a cost.

How this compares to the MS I know not nor do I know which is more precise. Something to keep in mind although I only brought this up because one has it included as you said and noted the price. Neptune in their defense, not that it is needed, doesn't hide the cost and actually explains why it is.

 

[Paul Sands]

You are paying for phone and plane. Same thing.
Honestly paul your arguments are funny and clearly just for sake or arguments.
From saying they can put memory for calibration data inside the water while ignoring any type of memory will require bias voltage and cannot be submerged
To claiming with such conviction the device is fraud..I do not know what is it exactly you are bothered by?

Paying for an entire year of service upfront and paying a smaller monthly service charge are literally not the same thing. They are different things. That’s the point.

 

[MnFish1]

Really? My phone service is like $150/ month for two phones. I should pay an entire year upfront? What discount do I get for doing that? What did you pay for your two years of service? Was that like a $2,000 payment to AT&T? I feel like we need a poll, because I have literally NEVER heard about someone paying for one or two years of phone or cable service upfront.

If you have to make up “facts”to prove your point, your point probably isn’t worth proving.

OK - so look -

Insurance companies do it (i.e. pay for the year rather than by the month - save 10-20 precent)
Apartment companies do it (i.e. pay your rent for a year - and save x percent)
Many companies take money off the bill if the invoice is paid more quickly (Early Payment Discounts - An early payment discount (also called a prompt payment or cash discount) is a reduction in an invoice balance when it’s paid before the due date.)

So - just because You havent heard of something - doesn't mean it doesn't exist - and trying to pick apart everyone else comments just for the sake of doing so seems a bit mean-spirited. This has so little to do with the main point of the OP. Maybe you should start with 'believing' what the company says - and then stating why its a 'poor' product - rather than all of the possible pitfalls?

We've now established that the price is about the same - if you include the Trident, Apex maintenance, probe replacement and reagents - and compare to a mindstream. Shoudl we also add to the Trident side the 'Dissolved O2 Probe' - which for Apex costs $700? Should we also add the Potassium testing that some might do to the Apex side? (Its included in Mindstream). Should we take into account the fact that the Mindstream will not have 2 probes that are basically 'useless' over time (ORP (which is useless from the start) - and the salinity probe) - ie continuously drift?

Should we add the negative to the Mindstream that it cant be used to 'control' the tank?
Should we add that the 'control' offered by Neptune has crashed many tanks?

Seems to me these are some interesting topics to discuss - not whether you paid for your couch at the time it was shipped?

 

[Ernie C]

Really? My phone service is like $150/ month for two phones. I should pay an entire year upfront? What discount do I get for doing that? What did you pay for your two years of service? Was that like a $2,000 payment to AT&T? I feel like we need a poll, because I have literally NEVER heard about someone paying for one or two years of phone or cable service upfront.

If you have to make up “facts”to prove your point, your point probably isn’t worth proving.

Not that this matters as it doesn’t sway my interest in the product, Services and subscriptions aren’t the same. Services are subject to amount fluctuations monthly. Subscriptions typically aren’t.

 

[MnFish1]

Really? My phone service is like $150/ month for two phones. I should pay an entire year upfront? What discount do I get for doing that? What did you pay for your two years of service? Was that like a $2,000 payment to AT&T? I feel like we need a poll, because I have literally NEVER heard about someone paying for one or two years of phone or cable service upfront.

If you have to make up “facts”to prove your point, your point probably isn’t worth proving.

You get a discount. They give you a discount when you sign up for a 2 year plan. You just pay the amount on a monthly basis. If you move you pay a hefty cancellation fee. Rather than argue that here - maybe have a chat with your phone company? Once your contract is 'up' you may find your bill 50 dollars/month higher (or so) - until you call and say 'why is my bill so high' and they say - your contract expired. If you sign up for a new contract (2 year ) you will get lower fees again.

EDIT - this should read have a chat with your cable company.

 

[road_runner]

OK - so look -

Insurance companies do it (i.e. pay for the year rather than by the month - save 10-20 precent)
Apartment companies do it (i.e. pay your rent for a year - and save x percent)
Many companies take money off the bill if the invoice is paid more quickly (Early Payment Discounts - An early payment discount (also called a prompt payment or cash discount) is a reduction in an invoice balance when it’s paid before the due date.)

So - just because You havent heard of something - doesn't mean it doesn't exist - and trying to pick apart everyone else comments just for the sake of doing so seems a bit mean-spirited. This has so little to do with the main point of the OP. Maybe you should start with 'believing' what the company says - and then stating why its a 'poor' product - rather than all of the possible pitfalls?

We've now established that the price is about the same - if you include the Trident, Apex maintenance, probe replacement and reagents - and compare to a mindstream. Shoudl we also add to the Trident side the 'Dissolved O2 Probe' - which for Apex costs $700? Should we also add the Potassium testing that some might do to the Apex side? (Its included in Mindstream). Should we take into account the fact that the Mindstream will not have 2 probes that are basically 'useless' over time (ORP (which is useless from the start) - and the salinity probe) - ie continuously drift?

Should we add the negative to the Mindstream that it cant be used to 'control' the tank?
Should we add that the 'control' offered by Neptune has crashed many tanks?

Seems to me these are some interesting topics to discuss - not whether you paid for your couch at the time it was shipped?

Man why you wasting so much time ha ha.
Such discussion is really irrelevant.

Calculations were made earlier.
Mindstream is the cheaper option as well as providing the most paramaters testing..

 

[MnFish1]

Man why you wasting so much time ha ha.
Such discussion is really irrelevant.

Calculations were made earlier.
Mindstream is the cheaper option as well as providing the most paramaters testing..

According to the post you just made - you said the delta was 99.95 or so - more expensive. So where do you get that idea? The point was that several people have mentioned that 'its more expensive'. PS - I know - I did some of the original calculations. I'm not sure why its still being discussed either - except by people who are just trolling.

 

[road_runner]

Really? My phone service is like $150/ month for two phones. I should pay an entire year upfront? What discount do I get for doing that? What did you pay for your two years of service? Was that like a $2,000 payment to AT&T? I feel like we need a poll, because I have literally NEVER heard about someone paying for one or two years of phone or cable service upfront.

If you have to make up “facts”to prove your point, your point probably isn’t worth proving.

Phones usually cost 700 to 800$ (iphone is 900$)
Carrier devide this in to 2 years payments. If you break contract you still meed to pay for the rest.

On top of that you pay 25 to 35$ for the mobile plan subscription..

Mindstream cost 1000$
And a 30~35$ subscription.

Usually you go and change your phone every 2 3 years same cycle restart u need to pay for the new phone, mindstteam will not require that..

If my phone test 10 paramaters I will pay 1000$ for, it's only 200$ diffrence
Ha ha
What wrong data am I making here?
Take a look at your monthly bill and see how is it calculated..

 

[Millimylilly]

This is the first I have heard of this testing equipment I will have to check it out.
But I don't like subscriptions. Sorry but its not the same as purchasing reagents. Yes reagents need to be replaced, but that can be done on your terms when you need them.
If they do lock you out, as the info in this thread states then that's even worse.

Sounds like you would like the reefbot like me [emoji3526]

 

[Millimylilly]

Gosh that price won’t have a WAF. (Wife acceptance factor)!!!

It would be 0 hahaha

 

[road_runner]

According to the post you just made - you said the delta was 99.95 or so - more expensive. So where do you get that idea? The point was that several people have mentioned that 'its more expensive'. PS - I know - I did some of the original calculations. I'm not sure why its still being discussed either - except by people who are just trolling.

This is referring to a 4-5 years model earlier user and resonated with me(with some modification I did to make it apple to apple and more comparable to me personally). Pleade correct any wrong data you see here...

Mindstream would cost ~$2677. 10 paramaters testing and monitoring

Neptune based cost ~2700~$3500. Testing 7 paramaters.

Am trying to do similar calculation to xepta and ghl but some of the prices are not known yet so calculation will be missing. But what I know is in the details

Details:
MindStream
Base Unit Cost = $1,000
Service - Every five years = $0
Subscription Disk = $34.95 per month or $1677 for four years
Four Year Total Cost = $2,677

Neptune Trident
Trident Base Unit Cost = $600
Apex package= 800$ this come with 3 probs only
Apex head without probs=400$
Apex o2 prob+module=775$
Service - every 18-24 months is less than $100 for a self-service kit or $150-$200 for a factory job. = Self service $200 - Factory $300 to $400
Reagents for four years = $1080 (I confirmed the calibration standard ships with the reagents so you should recalibrate every two months according to Neptune's FAQ)
Four Year Total Cost ~ $27000 to $3500 without counting for the yearly maintenance for trident that is another adder.

GHL:
Profilux package=$1000 thinks comparable to apex package but has more functionalities..
Profilux basic=$800 this give you way more than apex head alone
Khd= $800
Iod director=??
Ion probs cost=??

Xepta:
My understanding this package that will test and dose is around 1300 to 1400$.
Probs and reagent cost=??

 

[MnFish1]

This is referring to a 4-5 years model earlier user and resonated with me(with some modification I did to make it apple to apple and more comparable to me personally). Pleade correct any wrong data you see here...

Mindstream would cost ~$2677. 10 paramaters testing and monitoring

Neptune based cost ~2700~$3500. Testing 7 paramaters.

Am trying to do similar calculation to xepta and ghl but some of the prices are not known yet so calculation will be missing. But what I know is in the details

Details:
MindStream
Base Unit Cost = $1,000
Service - Every five years = $0
Subscription Disk = $34.95 per month or $1677 for four years
Four Year Total Cost = $2,677

Neptune Trident
Trident Base Unit Cost = $600
Apex package= 800$ this come with 3 probs only
Apex head without probs=400$
Apex o2 prob+module=775$
Service - every 18-24 months is less than $100 for a self-service kit or $150-$200 for a factory job. = Self service $200 - Factory $300 to $400
Reagents for four years = $1080 (I confirmed the calibration standard ships with the reagents so you should recalibrate every two months according to Neptune's FAQ)
Four Year Total Cost ~ $27000 to $3500 without counting for the yearly maintenance for trident that is another adder.

GHL:
Profilux package=$1000 thinks comparable to apex package but has more functionalities..
Profilux basic=$800 this give you way more than apex head alone
Khd= $800
Iod director=??
Ion probs cost=??

Xepta:
My understanding this package that will test and dose is around 1300 to 1400$.
Probs and reagent cost=??

 

[TheHarold]

Some people have too much time on their hands lol

 

[MnFish1]

The main drawback that most people will find with the mindstream (no not the subscription model) - its the fact that they cant control their 'stuff'. To me that doesn't matter. Most equipment comes with their own apps and controllers. I mean - what difference does it make if you need to tap on an APP on a phone to get to your lights - and another app to get to your Gyre - as compared to tapping one button on apex for lights and another button for gyre, etc etc.

 

[MnFish1]

Some people have too much time on their hands lol

Did you mean for commenting on those with too much time on their hands lol (ol):)