The myth that LED lights last forever

[The Opinionated Reefer]

Many enthusiasts have long favored LEDs over T5s, citing the belief that while T5 bulbs require annual replacement, LEDs will remain robust for over a decade. But where did this enduring myth about the infinite lifespan of LEDs originate?

Prominent manufacturers such as Kessil highlight a life expectancy of 35,000 hours for their lights, which translates to around 5-7 years for the average user. Similarly, Philips' coral care lights advertise 25,000 hours at full light output, amounting to just 2.5 years or up to 5 years if operated for 12 hours daily.

Considering the quality reputation of these brands, one might infer that other less renowned brands might offer even shorter lifespans. A notable observation from a forum memeber mentioned that the Red Sea ReefLed 90, which originally emitted 800 par directly underneath when new, declined to 600 par after just two years.

Moreover, there have been accounts of hobbyists who, upon integrating a second identical LED unit, observed noticeable discrepancies in brightness even with identical settings.

This evidence suggests that LEDs, akin to traditional bulbs, experience degradation over time, with shifts in spectral output mirroring that of bulbs and tubes. Contrary to popular belief, studies by BRS have shown that T5 tubes can function effectively for more than 18 months before requiring replacement. Furthermore, they offer superior light spread compared to other sources. This accentuates the argument that LED fixtures dont really provide value for their cost. If one were to compare, they'd only need three sets of T5 bulb replacements over the lifespan of an average LED fixture and would likely achieve superior results, especially with specific corals like sps.

 

[HudsonReefer2.0]

Entropy. 2nd law TD.

 

[Bpb]

Following. This might be entertaining before it gets locked

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

Following. This might be entertaining before it gets locked

This. The old Led v. T5 v. MH debate, someone will be called a Luddite and all heck will break loose, .

 

[RichReef]

I wonder how much the lenses have to do with the decline rather than the diode itself.

Or the power that is being supplied to the diodes.

I'm pretty sure the diodes themselves aren't the problem.

 

[JTP424]

Following. This might be entertaining before it gets locked

It is a post by "The Opinionated Reefer"

To the point of the cost, I think you should TECHNICALLY include some sort of additional cost for proper disposal of fluorescent bulbs....I'm sure most people throw them in standard trash, they are considered household hazardous waste in the US. Although not much, if you don't live near any sort of facility, it could add significant cost (If one cares about that stuff)

To the LED over FL Bulbs, I think it has to do with the non-reef related bulb controversies that spill over into the reef sector. Unless you're the guy who bought enough fluorescents to last him lifetimes https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/09/18/man-buys-incandescent-lightbulbs-stockpile/

Your average hobbyist might not spend the time to do the research to investigate the cost savings, life span (they won't be as meticulous as BRS so their bulbs probably won't last the 18 months) or even have the room for spare bulbs etc

Basically, I agree they will probably last longer with cost savings etc. But I'm going for simplicity (my version of simplicity )

 

[62518161]

Nothing lasts forever.

 

[Shon]

On another forum about horticulture about a decade ago.. a lot of people, myself included started using cree cxa/cxb cob LEDs to replace hid lights. The ideal was running multiple at 20-50% wattage for both coverage and to squeeze out as much of the LEDs lifespan as possible. I still have beliefs on the concept.. though never seen proof.

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

I am not trying to cause an argument or controversy, basically what I am saying is reef lighting reached it peak with Haldies/T5's and your never going to be able to grow corals better with LEDs. A part from the power saving aspect which is not very much at all over T5's, there is no benefits to using LEDs from a tank health and coral growth perspective. Absolutely none!

They are expensive and don't really last long enough to justify the cost over T5's etc. Just go pick up a used ATI sunpower for 100 bucks and stick in a new set of bulbs and your lighting is sorted and you will amazing success.

Brands like Ecotech bring out Radions as frequently as apple do iPhones. Its a gravy train nothing more.

 

[MarineandReef Jaron]

I tell customers that LEDs may last a long time but many of the components of LED lights do not. On every LED that has died on me it has not been the actual LEDs that died it has been the power supplies, fans, or circuit board. I don't plan on LEDs lasting longer than 5 years.

That being said I have an original A360 non-WE I purchased in 2012 that is still running. At the time 2 other 360s were purchased that have both died. The only thing I did differently with this light is it has always been run at over 12in off the water's surface whereas the other lights were at 8in from the water. I would strongly recommend anyone interested in keeping their lights a long time keep them as far from the water's surface as possible. Manufacturers can only do so much to protect from the destructive effects of saltwater.

 

[nuxx]

Electronics will probably have an issue before the LED, esp. being suspended over saltwater...

 

[oreo54]

Phillips lists 25000 @ 100% output.
They don't list L70 or L90 lifespans.
70 or 90 % output.
Blanket statements like the o/p are practically impossible to accurately measure.
Before the current price inflation and using like to like (ATI vs radion) and yes 18 month bulb change
the break even cost point was 5 yrs.
Of course the difference is you still have an old led vs pretty new t5.

One could argue leds will last as long as ones tank (66% of them) or as long as one remains in the hobby.

There is evidence of over 5 years of " useful" lifespans of even Chinese black boxes or AI sols.
Sadly most of the current failures are not diode related but circuitry or thermal management design failures

I don't remember the exact numbers but I think BRS said 50% are gone after year 1. However, a lot of those that make it past year 1 make it to year 2. Like 75-80%. Then it is something like 75% of those that make it past year 2, make it to year 5. Ryan talked about it on a live once. They sent out that survey and it was eye opening.

This is an endless discussion with no real proof either way and also ignores other factors such as looks, functions, and user preferences.
To mention but one, the flat look of t5 vs led
or the current theme that any ONE light source is not perfect so hybrids abound.

 

[Someshmuk]

I am not trying to cause an argument or controversy, basically what I am saying is reef lighting reached it peak with Haldies/T5's and your never going to be able to grow corals better with LEDs. A part from the power saving aspect which is not very much at all over T5's, there is no benefits to using LEDs from a tank health and coral growth perspective. Absolutely none!

Brands like Ecotech bring out Radions as frequently as apple do iPhones. Its a gravy chain nothing more. LED reef lights simply have no other reason for existing a part from to create a market and make people money.

I feel that. Perhaps T5s/Halides will always be peak but we have to acknowledge the phase out of these technologies in lue of the cheaper to produce LEDs.

IMO I prefer the color of LEDs over t5s as the t5s always had a sickly tone in my eyes. Reminds me of the hospital. Whereas corals asthetically look great in LEDs when configured properly. I do want to try halides at one point to see what peak performance is.

But I can understand the distain for the new LED model rollout. I have 0 inclination of upgrading my Radion just because its a G4 and Ecotech is on G6. I think the most important thing to do is purchase a platform and master control of it and know that it'll work for years to come. Perhaps not the best, but most reefers are looking for good enough/aesthetic and not best.

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

This is an endless discussion with no real proof either way and also ignores other factors such as looks, functions, and user preferences.
To mention but one, the flat look of t5 vs led
or the current theme that any ONE light source is not perfect so hybrids abound.

I agree with all that. I am not saying don't use LED if that is what you prefer. I even use an LED lights myself but given the choice id always use them in a hybrid setup for fill lights with sps.

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

I feel that. Perhaps T5s/Halides will always be peak but we have to acknowledge the phase out of these technologies in lue of the cheaper to produce LEDs.

IMO I prefer the color of LEDs over t5s as the t5s always had a sickly tone in my eyes. Reminds me of the hospital. Whereas corals asthetically look great in LEDs when configured properly. I do want to try halides at one point to see what peak performance is.

But I can understand the distain for the new LED model rollout. I have 0 inclination of upgrading my Radion just because its a G4 and Ecotech is on G6. I think the most important thing to do is purchase a platform and master control of it and know that it'll work for years to come. Perhaps not the best, but most reefers are looking for good enough/aesthetic and not best.

It will be a real step backwards for the hobby when T5's are completely phased out. Halides i can sort of understand.

 

[jason2459]

On another forum about horticulture about a decade ago.. a lot of people, myself included started using cree cxa/cxb cob LEDs to replace hid lights. The ideal was running multiple at 20-50% wattage for both coverage and to squeeze out as much of the LEDs lifespan as possible. I still have beliefs on the concept.. though never seen proof.

I'm curious how long this approach helps extends the light fixture. I also splatter a lot of LEDs up in my canopy and run them all at much lower percentages so much so that the fans never kick on.

 

[oreo54]

Justify the cost is subjective...
Grows corals better also subjective..
Comparing used vs new ..well has issues
Has less shadowing..ok.

 

[Garf]

Nothing lasts forever.

 

[oreo54]

$20 lens failure?
Ai' s " issue" is well known.
My guess, poor choice of polymer and/or organic contaminates

 

[Reefering1]

I feel that. Perhaps T5s/Halides will always be peak but we have to acknowledge the phase out of these technologies in lue of the cheaper to produce LEDs.

Interesting how the cheaper to produce leds cost sooo much more to purchase a fixture.