The myth that LED lights last forever

[A. grandis]

How about a "natural" 1m light.. See dotted line..Better than a MH.
BTW the Lumiled violet and uv diodes are about $9-$10 each.
There is a version of this being set up by a reefer here.
You talk too much with little hard evidence btw.

The garbage was referring to 850nm or greater. AFAICT well beyond the Emerson effect, though that remains a bit open at this point. Which is why the 740nm diode was chosen.

That's ridiculous..tells me they aren't sure of anything. Or is the NWO paying them off?

ANY and I mean ANY sentence that starts off with "some people are saying is INSTANTLY trashed btw.

PWM isn't necessary, there are other ways to dim diodes.

tuillo sells.. instant red flag, regardless. BRS sells.. same thing.

You add to you post all the time... relax!
DIFFERENT TECHNOLOGIES will give you DIFFERENT RESULTS.
You just cant compare halides to LEDs, Oreo!
You can't have the same intensity using that spectrum fom halides using LEDs.
You won't be able to have the same spectrum from a diode with it's limitations of blue based wavelengths, made out of plastic, comparing to a gas chambered in that arc with the emission halides have. That's why it's all different! The paper does not show what it is indeed in real life!
Can you compare a shimmering from a "full spectrum" LEDs' fixture to a Iwasaki 6500K halide???? You want to compare graphics from computer screen with colorful lines to the real life????
Ask kids... ask a grandma... they will tell you the truth! Put your hands under both...

 

[buruskeee]

T5s are the best light in terms of distribution and spectrum for pigment formation and colony structure there is, for relatively shallow systems.

Again, ZERO evidence to write this as a fact. Just because YOU and some people you like believe it to be, doesn’t make it a universal truth.

Take a spectrum snapshot of a MH, T5 setup, and LED setup, and prove where the spectrum superiority or inferiority lies. If all you can do is say “trust me and some other old heads that are old tech truthers“, then I’m sorry, the burden of proof still lies with you.

Lumens of wavelengths are lumens of wavelengths, regardless of the source.

 

[A. grandis]

Trophy for dumbest post of the day?

LOL! You've been changing your posts after published. Confused, adding things that play nonsense in many ways when it comes to the reality of physics. Sometimes we need to play like that to call your attention to real facts. Every time I exchange these types of messages with you I feel sorry because you don't really get it. You really need to get you hands wet, or find some halide tanks to see for yourself. Different technologies will have their own qualities in many ways.

 

[zheka757]

All I said is that if you us it accordingly, you will find that you will need it on for less hours and your corals will look amazing.
If you choose to use ReefBrite halides you will b able to put your hands on the fixture running 400W lamps. So heat isn't the issue. If you need a chiller with halides you most likely will need a chiller with LEDs. I do.
It's a matter of application. Do your search and you will understand.
I'm not better than you. Other halide users have also taken that excuse away from their list. They don't cost more to operate than LEDs, if you want optimal results. You ignored Sanjay's video and just posted what you wanted...

I'm a metal halide user, and I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with your statement, I use 4 400w on reefbrite fixtures, over 400g 8ft long tank. You are right, the fixture is not that hot, I can actually put my hand on it. But if you put your hand just under the glass of the fixture, you can feel the heat, I measured the temperature of it once and it was at 320F range. So yes they absolutely do warm the tank up.

I use to run 8 t5s and 336 3w led diodes between 7 fixtures. My tank temp would never be higher then 81F

Now I use 4 400w MH, 8 t5s, and 4 led bars totaling 192 3w leds. My tank temperatures go as high as 83.5F.

As much as I love MH, heat is absolutely big issue with Helides vrs any other lights.
I can guarantee if I'll use 1000 3w leds it won't produce as much heat as single 400w metal halide would.

BTW the way I managed the heat, I installed mini split a/c in my fish room and now my temperature of the water in 78-79.5 range.

 

[A. grandis]

Again, ZERO evidence to write this as a fact. Just because YOU and some people you like believe it to be, doesn’t make it a universal truth.

Take a spectrum snapshot of a MH, T5 setup, and LED setup, and prove where the spectrum superiority or inferiority lies. If all you can do is say “trust me and some other old heads that are old tech truthers“, then I’m sorry, the burden of proof still lies with you.

Lumens of wavelengths are lumens of wavelengths, regardless of the source.

Experience. LOL! have you tried T5s??
Results. Do you want more to prove than experience? How? LOL!!

There is no UV in most LED fixtures. So...
Even if they were present, intensity makes a huge difference!!!! Or not?
It's physics.

Ok... IF there is no difference, why can't we replicate exactly the spectrum of a Radium 400W halide with any LED??? Explain that.

 

[A. grandis]

I'm a metal halide user, and I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with your statement, I use 4 400w on reefbrite fixtures, over 400g 8ft long tank. You are right, the fixture is not that hot, I can actually put my hand on it. But if you put your hand just under the glass of the fixture, you can feel the heat, I measured the temperature of it once and it was at 320F range. So yes they absolutely do warm the tank up.

I use to run 8 t5s and 336 3w led diodes between 7 fixtures. My tank temp would never be higher then 81F

Now I use 4 400w MH, 8 t5s, and 4 led bars totaling 192 3w leds. My tank temperatures go as high as 83.5F.

As much as I love MH, heat is absolutely big issue with Helides vrs any other lights.
I can guarantee if I'll use 1000 3w leds it won't produce as much heat as single 400w metal halide would.

BTW the way I managed the heat, I installed mini split a/c in my fish room and now my temperature of the water in 78-79.5 range.

I wouldn't be stupid to say they don't emit heat, and in addition the IR. That's ridiculous. The spectrum is there. The heat is there. A normal 400W lamp will reach 500F+. Yes, LEDs will be much cooler, but they will also warm up. LEDs don't heat the water as halides does. That is logical!

I have a chiller with my 250W halide/ 4 X 54W T5 fixture!

 

[zheka757]

I wouldn't be stupid to say they don't emit heat, and in addition the IR. That's ridiculous. The spectrum is there. The heat is there. A normal 400W lamp will reach 500F+. Yes, LEDs will be much cooler, but they will also warm up. LEDs don't heat the water as halides does. That is logical!

I have a chiller with my 250W halide/ 4 X 54W T5 fixture!

And I'm just replying based on your quote

If you choose to use ReefBrite halides you will b able to put your hands on the fixture running 400W lamps. So heat isn't the issue. If you need a chiller with halides you most likely will need a chiller with LEDs. I do.

....so heat isn't the issue"

 

[A. grandis]

And I'm just replying based on your quote

....so heat isn't the issue"

Placing a fan between the water column and the fixture parallel to the water surface will cut the heat transfer significantly. Application. The best way to manage that heat transfer. The design of the ReefBrite is supposed to dissipate the heat in the fixture therefore helping he environment around the fixture.
Try to place the fan. I use the small Vornado.

 

[buruskeee]

Experience. LOL! have you tried T5s??
Results. Do you want more to prove than experience? How? LOL!!

There is no UV in most LED fixtures. So...
Even if they were present, intensity makes a huge difference!!!! Or not?
It's physics.

Yes, before my hiatus of the hobby 15 years ago, I used MH T5 hybrids.

Also, the video of Tullio you posted was almost 7 years ago - much has changed in LED tech since then. Much of what he was saying at that time was for the most part accurate, again for that time. I think you are missing a big part of that lecture - MH are naturally inefficient because of how hot they run. Heat is a direct relation to loss and inefficiency.

I hope you know, even with the radium bulbs, there is a protective layer that filters the harmful UV spectrum from escaping the bulbs. So while the lower wavelengths of UV is in the spectrum, it doesn’t make it out of the bulb.

Comparing PAR and spectrum is a direct measurable comparison. Watts mean nothing in terms of photosynthetic energy (hey something your video agrees with). Photons at certain wavelengths are what matters.

Ok... IF there is no difference, why can't we replicate exactly the spectrum of a Radium 400W halide with any LED??? Explain that.

Radium:

Current Radions:

 

[A. grandis]

Yes, before my hiatus of the hobby 15 years ago, I used MH T5 hybrids.

Also, the video of Dana you posted was almost 7 years ago - much has changed in LED tech since then. Much of what he was saying at that time was for the most part accurate, again for that time. I think you are missing a big part of that lecture - MH are naturally inefficient because of how hot they run. Heat is a direct relation to loss and inefficiency.

I hope you know, even with the radium bulbs, there is a protective layer that filters the harmful UV spectrum from escaping the bulbs. So while the lower wavelengths of UV is in the spectrum, it doesn’t make it out of the bulb.

Comparing PAR and spectrum is a direct measurable comparison. Watts mean nothing in terms of photosynthetic energy (hey something your video agrees with). Photons at certain wavelengths are what matters.

Radium:

Current Radions:

Thanks for the graphics showing the differences.

The protective glass filters UVC, nothing to do with the useful UVB and UVA.

If photons in certain wavelengths are what matters, what are those wavelengths you are referring to? And matters for what exactly? Photosynthesis alone? The fact that Dana refers mostly to photosynthesis doesn't mean that is all what matters. Is photosynthesis all we need to consider? Why? Corals absorb light throughout the whole full spectrum for their metabolism. Photosynthesis isn't all what should be taken in consideration either. Is blue light the only important part of the spectrum? Why? Because most people use only blue light and that's the trend?

 

[buruskeee]

Is blue light the only important part of the spectrum? Why? Because most people use only blue light and that's the trend?

Because this is what the corals mostly consume. If you take a spectrum analyzer under water at certain depths, only blue light (longer wavelengths) penetrate and the other shorter wavelengths get filtered out (hence why water appears blue) - this is very fundamental stuff about this hobby.

Also edited my post. I meant your video of Tullio, not Dana.

 

[oreo54]

Experience. LOL! have you tried T5s??
Results. Do you want more to prove than experience? How? LOL!!

There is no UV in most LED fixtures. So...
Even if they were present, intensity makes a huge difference!!!! Or not?
It's physics.

Ok... IF there is no difference, why can't we replicate exactly the spectrum of a Radium 400W halide with any LED??? Explain that.

There is no led equiv. to the narrow green mercury spike. About the only major difference well besides the downward radiant heat and all that 850nm plus stuff
Most of the " look" comes from that and the fact that they produce white by using RGB for the most part.
Adding " white" LEDs makes white using blue plus a yellow to yellow green broad phosphor.
You want to make leds look like mh, just skip the whites and use colors but again the main difference is the green spike.
Tuillo says " look at the spectrum" and you really should.
Yea there are some nm mismatched around the amber bumps in the mh and LEDs but they aren't fatal.

Besides,in case you haven't noticed manufacturers really haven't been leaning in that direction and diode manufacturers aren't bothering to "phosphor" their way either, unlike mh which doped their cores purposely.
This isn't rocket science.
And a reminder mh 6500k' s ( maybe 10000k) may be close to the "sun" but the rest are not very close to any particular depth regardless of what your religion says.
Again look at the spectrums like Tullio told you to.

14000k ushio vs the ocean..Predominant wavelength is WAY off by. 40-50nm.

This is a collaborative light design
Someday we shall see what it can do .
Only 2 channels. White plus and rb.
On full should be about 10000k.
ATM will not have the violet tail.

MH spikes:

Hylux blue Iwasaki. At least the peaks are right-er.

When you actually document the magic photons ..let me know.

 

[oreo54]

All the light techs work, all are " fairly" equal when applied correctly. Each has a strength and weakness I e even mh's benefit from t5 led additions.
Never in doubt...never questioned.
Each has a set of properties that appeal to a set of individual preferences. Pick the one you think you will enjoy most. As stated it's a hobby... not a factory.

 

[Shon]

I'm curious how long this approach helps extends the light fixture. I also splatter a lot of LEDs up in my canopy and run them all at much lower percentages so much so that the fans never kick on.

Gotta love passive cooling. I had cxb3070's on 120mm pin heatsinks, nothing ever got too hot to touch. I still have them somewhere, but I bet while it still works as good as it did when I first used it, the thermal paste most likely needs a redo. That's probably the only failure point I can think of.

I'm gonna slap 4x 6500k led strips on the aquatic life g2. 45w driver/4 strips (2 series+2 parallel)=<12w max per strip (48w max per strip), at 100% (dimmable driver)..

 

[nursingcoral]

I tell customers that LEDs may last a long time but many of the components of LED lights do not. On every LED that has died on me it has not been the actual LEDs that died it has been the power supplies, fans, or circuit board. I don't plan on LEDs lasting longer than 5 years.

That being said I have an original A360 non-WE I purchased in 2012 that is still running. At the time 2 other 360s were purchased that have both died. The only thing I did differently with this light is it has always been run at over 12in off the water's surface whereas the other lights were at 8in from the water. I would strongly recommend anyone interested in keeping their lights a long time keep them as far from the water's surface as possible. Manufacturers can only do so much to protect from the destructive effects of saltwater.

I have experienced LED fixture failure due to control board issues, and not the actual LEDs also.

 

[shwareefer]

 

[Reefering1]

Ok, I'll bite on some of the easier points of this discussion.. light distribution, power consumption, and heat. Shouldn't be hard to agree on these non-subjective topics... everyone should agree that there is no comparison between a reflector bouncing light back at every angle vs a beam of light pointing down. Right? Sure you can change lenses or raise the fixture but then intensity suffers.how many led fixtures are required to get 200-300 par at the bottom of a 30" tall tank? Double what the manufacturer's suggest you need(?) So if 3 250w halides get it done, what is that 5 or 6 xr30's(900-1200w), sounds less efficient(equal or more power consumption). Then for those talking about heat, how many watts worth of heaters are you using? My tank doesn't even have one, the lights and pumps take care of that. I do have a 1/3hp chiller though, however since adding a dehumidifier to the house, it hardly runs anymore. I leave it connected for back up in case the house a/c fails.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I know someone who has Gas Lanterns up their driveway, I asked how often he had to replace the Mantles, ”never.” He took me out to one of Lanterns, LEDs, With tiny speakers for the gentle Hiss. I was blown away, by the replication, even up close I was fooled.

I want

 

[BeanAnimal]

So 5 years, if at 100%, should be the time to change most fixtures if you want to keep the light similar to what you had in the beginning.

Thanks, but I will take data sheets and real real world analysis over gross generalization and bloviation a social media feed.

You tend to both cherry pick and take comments out of context to make your points. I don’t have the energy or desire to argue, only to have the same videos and articles from the same people cherry picked again and presented as the response.

While I do miss aspects of my halides, LEDs are growing coral and fit into my budget and system…what a terrible conspiracy!

Ask kids... ask a grandma... they will tell you the truth! Put your hands under both...

Uhh no, I am not putting my hands under kids or grandma, weirdo!

Placing a fan between the water column and the fixture parallel to the water surface will cut the heat transfer significantly. Application. The best way to manage that heat transfer

A significant portion of direct heat transfer from MH (compared to LED or FL) is IR heating the water contents and tank areas that it strikes, not conduction or convection.

The fans are forcing evaporation to counteract the IR thermal gain, not prevent it by ‘blowing‘ heat away before it is absorbed by the water.

 

[Tavero]

Gotta love passive cooling. I had cxb3070's on 120mm pin heatsinks, nothing ever got too hot to touch. I still have them somewhere, but I bet while it still works as good as it did when I first used it, the thermal paste most likely needs a redo. That's probably the only failure point I can think of.

I'm gonna slap 4x 6500k led strips on the aquatic life g2. 45w driver/4 strips (2 series+2 parallel)=<12w max per strip (48w max per strip), at 100% (dimmable driver)..

You will still want to watch out about running them at 100%. Just because the heatsinks aren't hot doesn't mean the silica isn't. There is a physical limit how much heat can be transferred from the chip to the animinium layer. Computers can measure silica temperature of the processor directly. Some intels are running at 90°C while the heatspreader is still touchable.

LEDs rarely die of high voltage. You would need to zap them with 1000V to destroy them, but with just 4V on a 3.2V led there's so much heat produced, the chip will burn in seconds and no kind of heatsinks will save them.