The no water change revolution!

[Lasse]

I'm personally not so much worried about TOC when using organic export methods of various sorts, as opposed to smaller amounts of specific toxins, of which marine organisms make a lot.

On the other hand - if specific toxins are a general problem - 10 % weekly WC in an aquarium like mine will not change anything. It will only take a little longer time before it is a problem. If I was concerned of this - I would prefer a 70 - 80 % WC each year or so. I´m not against WC - if needed. But I do not think regular, small WC will change anything. Because I use a type of Balling (Triton Core 7) - my salinity rise and I normally need to take out around 4-6 litres of water each 14 days in order to maintain a salinity around 35 psu. It means - reality - that I do a 1 % WC a week.

My aquarium 5 years ago



and today



As you can see - there is a lot of corals known for chemical warfare in this tank (and has been here for more than 5 years) - I have never been out for an event there I suspected toxins from the corals as a cause. I´m not so voried about this. I use an oxidator and it can be the reason why I don't get toxic levels of these toxins.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Matt Carden]

Me either - even if I let it run out of fuel (read H2O2) now and then

Sincerely Lasse

I have a hard time remembering ti refuel them as well

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

On the other hand - if specific toxins are a general problem - 10 % weekly WC in an aquarium like mine will not change anything. It will only take a little longer time before it is a problem. If I was concerned of this - I would prefer a 70 - 80 % WC each year or so. I´m not against WC - if needed. But I do not think regular, small WC will change anything. Because I use a type of Balling (Triton Core 7) - my salinity rise and I normally need to take out around 4-6 litres of water each 14 days in order to maintain a salinity around 35 psu. It means - reality - that I do a 1 % WC a week.

I do not see such a difference to make that assertion:

If a cyano toxin is slowly accumulating, say 1 uM per day, then this is what you'd see after a year starting at zero:

Nothing: 365 uM
1% daily change: 97.4 uM
7% weekly: 97.5 uM
30% monthly: 98.6
80% change once a year: 73 uM


All of those changes drop the level significantly, IMO.

 

[pixelhustler]

I do not see such a difference to make that assertion:

If a cyano toxin is slowly accumulating, say 1 uM per day, then this is what you'd see after a year starting at zero:

Nothing: 365 uM
1% daily change: 97.4 uM
7% weekly: 97.5 uM
30% monthly: 98.6
80% change once a year: 73 uM


All of those changes drop the level significantly, IMO.

Very interesting. Seems like it would be wise for me to do a big WC once a year.

Would this mean these toxins are bound to accumulate regardless and reach dangerous levels on a long enough timeline? Makes you wonder if “Old Tank Syndrome” and unexplained tank “crashes” are just an accumulation of toxins.

Are there any products other than Purigen and Cuprisorb that you would recommend to remove toxins?

@Lasse I have a Söchtig Oxydator A on the way. Excited to try it as I’ve heard many good things. They seem to be very popular in Europe but are hard to find here in the US

 

[Lasse]

If a cyano toxin

This or/and dinoflagellate toxins are IMO not a question of long term build up - IMO - rather a function of blooms and - IMO - an event when WC can be a remedy. But yes - I understand the maths and that this was only a general example.

The question to put - IMO - are there really some coral toxins that will be stable (over time) and accumulate in our tanks? And if so - can we use something in order to detoxify them (or/and remove them)

Accumulation over time of coral toxin in an aquarium has been suspected but not really shown to be true - IMO. But still - it is possible.

Other methods to detoxify/remove them?

Granular Activated Carbon (GAC) is a known remedy often used in aquarium and build on adsorption of toxins (and yellowing substances). Well known (and well investigated) method in other fields than aquarium. After use - removed from the system.

H2O2 (oxydator or dosed) and O3 (ozone generators) is known to oxidize many complicated organic compound (including yellowing substances). H2O2 not so well documented in other fields but ozone is a well known tool in commercial applications like removing many smelling substances in air. Change the structure of the molecule and hence always a risk to make it more toxic

Bentonite clay. Is known in other fields for removing/bounding biological toxins and other "dissolved" organics in liquids. Including yellowing substances in aquarium. Easy-life filter medium is a product that probably consist of Bentonite clay. Bentonite clay a well established method in other fields but used in some products as cat litter. Build on adsorption and sedimentation. Not removed from the aquarium.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

Makes you wonder if “Old Tank Syndrome” and unexplained tank “crashes” are just an accumulation of toxins.

It has been suggested but - as I know - never established as a cause.

There is many things we not understand with oxydators - especially how they affect ORP:s reading compared with just dosing single doses. Its known that an ORP electrode needs an acclimation period of around 1 month - this thread. but even after that it report some strange reactions - I have update the thread with some new findings that´s complicate the explanations even more.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Dcloser12]

I have a 265, 75gal sump and 2 15gal tanks I use for ato and awc. One has a power head in it. I just add salt once a week. I'm changing 15 gal a week. Costs me about 20$ a month. I went over a year with no changes just dosing and had a major crash from things in the sand bed that built up. I think it's easily possible to go long term no water changes but I'd still suggest once a month to vacuum and replace with a water change the total volume removed. Helps replace elements removed from skimming and trace elements we can't test for while keeping some elements in check we can't remove otherwise

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Very interesting. Seems like it would be wise for me to do a big WC once a year.

Would this mean these toxins are bound to accumulate regardless and reach dangerous levels on a long enough timeline? Makes you wonder if “Old Tank Syndrome” and unexplained tank “crashes” are just an accumulation of toxins.

Are there any products other than Purigen and Cuprisorb that you would recommend to remove toxins?

@Lasse I have a Söchtig Oxydator A on the way. Excited to try it as I’ve heard many good things. They seem to be very popular in Europe but are hard to find here in the US

I do not know how important toxin accumulation is, nor does anyone, but the values I quote above for regular water changes do not get even higher as you go out further in time. They have stabilized so that toxin in matches export.