The no water change revolution!

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Reef Crystals says right on their packaging that they replenish Mag/Calcium and will also detoxify heavy metals if any get through your rodi.

The metal chelator is a curious additive that I do not think should be in a salt mix. It's one of the reasons I would not use Reef Crystals (the other being the vitamins in it).

Not only do metal chelators reduce the toxicity of toxic metals, they also reduced the bioavailability of needed metals.

 

[Roli's Reef Ranch]

In a month or so, I'm going to start a hybrid triton method. Basically I'm going to keep calcium and alkalinity stable with kalk, I have a decent skimmer, macro, I'm going to get a carbon and gfo reactor... Etc etc. I'm going to send my water to triton periodically throughout the year, and dose based of those results. May do one or two water changes a year. The only thing I may have to do more often is test.

Anyone else eliminating water changes? I find that more and more people are. If so, please share your results!

Haven't done one for 6 months on a 1.5 yr old SPS dom system doing pretty much what you describe. I see no need to do them given the filtration/supplementation I have going as long as corals are healthy and growing; which they are. I run the hybrid balling part to keep the ionic balance stable and dose Kalk, test KH daily, and make adjustments as necessary.

 

[Dom]

Water changes are not effective at either of those things. They don't replenish trace elements and are terrible for nutrient control (read nitrate and phosphate reduction) unless you have a tiny tank doing 50% or more weekly.

10% a week isn't doing anything for most tanks out there.

As a sole strategy, I agree with you.

But I stand by 20% weekly water changes as a part of a broader strategy to export nutrients and replenishment.

 

[rtparty]

As a sole strategy, I agree with you.

But I stand by 20% weekly water changes as a part of a broader strategy to export nutrients and replenishment.

Depends on the system.

Not a chance I'm doing 60g water changes weekly on my tank. That's over $100 a month just in salt alone. Not to mention the instability that brings to a system.

 

[Dom]

Depends on the system.

Not a chance I'm doing 60g water changes weekly on my tank. That's over $100 a month just in salt alone. Not to mention the instability that brings to a system.

I agree.
Once beyond a certain tank size tank, water changes are not practical.

 

[pixelhustler]

I have an Oxydator (H2O2 dosing) taking care of must of the yellowing stuff

Sincerely Lasse

No kidding! I’ve looked into the sochting oxydators before but I didn’t know it combats yellowing. Ordering one right now!

 

[najer]

No kidding! I’ve looked into the sochting oxydators before but I didn’t know it combats yellowing. Ordering one right now!

I wouldn't run a tank without them now.

 

[Lasse]

I wouldn't run a tank without them now.

Me either - even if I let it run out of fuel (read H2O2) now and then

Sincerely Lasse

 

[brmc1985]

Yeah, I never understood how tanks that don't do any water changes replenish trace elements?

Easy. All For Reef

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yeah, I never understood how tanks that don't do any water changes replenish trace elements?

Adding what is missing can be straightforward without water changes. You can add based on measurement, or you can add what average tanks need.

what is harder to envision is how to remove things that accumulate, including organics that cannot be quantified individually.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Easy. All For Reef

I personally would not expect that to do a great job getting trace element dosing right. Like many methods of trace element supplementation (such as Red Sea), it ties trace elements to the need for calcium and alk, but many trace elements are consumed by soft corals and algae and other organisms that use little to no calcium or alk.

IMO, such schemes may be no better, and may be worse, than simple additions of a fixed volume of additive per gallon of tank water per day or week.

 

[brmc1985]

I personally would not expect that to do a great job getting trace element dosing right. Like many methods of trace element supplementation (such as Red Sea), it ties trace elements to the need for calcium and alk, but many trace elements are consumed by soft corals and algae and other organisms that use little to no calcium or alk.

IMO, such schemes may be no better, and may be worse, than simple additions of a fixed volume of additive per gallon of tank water per day or week.

I’m trying to understand how that is any different than dosing a set amount of AFR though? Simple additions of a fixed volume of additive is exactly what AFR does but supposed at a “balanced” level that most corals uptake in a semi ”standard” amount. Wouldn’t this be the same thing except the risk of dosing a fixed volume per gallon has a significant higher risk of overdosing. I use ICP to keep track of trace elements and have never had an issue with any elements being way out of wack except for one maybe being too high and a couple low. This is easily fixed with routine maintenance doses of said elements. To me it just seems easier to dose one product that is balanced and do those minor doses.
I guess what I am trying to say is how is dosing a product independently based on a manufacturer recommended amount any different than dosing a product that Lou and his team did the research and said this is what corals typically uptake?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’m trying to understand how that is any different than dosing a set amount of AFR though? Simple additions of a fixed volume of additive is exactly what AFR does but supposed at a “balanced” level that most corals uptake in a semi ”standard” amount. Wouldn’t this be the same thing except the risk of dosing a fixed volume per gallon has a significant higher risk of overdosing. I use ICP to keep track of trace elements and have never had an issue with any elements being way out of wack except for one maybe being too high and a couple low. This is easily fixed with routine maintenance doses of said elements. To me it just seems easier to dose one product that is balanced and do those minor doses.
I guess what I am trying to say is how is dosing a product independently based on a manufacturer recommended amount any different than dosing a product that Lou and his team did the research and said this is what corals typically uptake?

What if the tank is mostly soft corals. They use just as many trace elements but you might need very little alk and calcium. Maybe none.

No method is perfect, but neither of these is a good as if you dosed based on accurate measurements.

 

[brmc1985]

What if the tank is mostly soft corals. They use just as many trace elements but you might need very little alk and calcium. Maybe none.

No method is perfect, but neither of these is a good as if you dosed based on accurate measurements.

Kind of a semi off topic question but do we know if trace elements are absorbed into the skeletons of corals or is it mainly the flesh and zooxanthellae? I was watching something earlier today and some calcium reactor medias didn’t report trace elements just the major ones.

 

[pixelhustler]

Adding what is missing can be straightforward without water changes. You can add based on measurement, or you can add what average tanks need.

what is harder to envision is how to remove things that accumulate, including organics that cannot be quantified individually.

I have a couple of questions on this, as I live in California and I’m slowly adjusting to minimal WC as water bans/limitations loom in the near future:
-Would carbon 1x a month eliminate most contaminants (especially those not measured by ICP)? I also run Cuprisorb permanently as I had heavy metals in the past even though I understand it may also reduce good metals such as iron
-Are trace elements really that important? Meaning, can’t corals survive and grow by using mostly ca/mg, stable alk, nitrate and phosphate? A yearly ICP + yearly/biannual dose of trace elements (safely and well below overdose) seems like a straightforward approach

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Kind of a semi off topic question but do we know if trace elements are absorbed into the skeletons of corals or is it mainly the flesh and zooxanthellae? I was watching something earlier today and some calcium reactor medias didn’t report trace elements just the major ones.

Some of each. Magnesium and strontium (not trace elements) are certainly mostly in skeletons. They slip into the calcium carbonate structure in place of calcium since they look chemically like it. But trace elements such as vanadium, iodide, and iron are more likely in the tissue. Macroalgae can such up a massive amount of some trace elements, such as iron and manganese. Just a little macroalgae growth can deplete a tank of manganese.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have a couple of questions on this, as I live in California and I’m slowly adjusting to minimal WC as water bans/limitations loom in the near future:
-Would carbon 1x a month eliminate most contaminants (especially those not measured by ICP)? I also run Cuprisorb permanently as I had heavy metals in the past even though I understand it may also reduce good metals such as iron
-Are trace elements really that important? Meaning, can’t corals survive and grow by using mostly ca/mg, stable alk, nitrate and phosphate? A yearly ICP + yearly/biannual dose of trace elements (safely and well below overdose) seems like a straightforward approach

GAC and other organic export methods (Purigen, etc. can certainly help remove organics, and I'd recommend it for most any reef tank. But not all will bind all types, and like using GFO without knowing the phosphate concentration, it's hard to know if the amount being used is binding as much as you want.

As to the importance of trace elements, that depends on how you ask the question.

No organism in the tank can live without them. They are critical for all cells to survive, and many organisms get them directly from the water. However, exactly how much of what is needed to ensure that all organisms we care about get all they need is currently not known, and matching seawater in total concentrations does not solve that issue since there are many factors we cannot accurately measure that impact bioavailability.

Biggest among these issues are the chemical form. Most trace elements are partly or almost completely bound to organics in the water. Which organics they bind to greatly impacts bioavailability. Many can also exist in multiple oxidation states that also have different bioavailability. Ferrous iron (Fe++) and ferric iron (Fe+++) have very different chemical properties and bioavailabiity. We have no way to know what forms our trace elements take, even if we dose a particular form.

FWIW, in many parts of the ocean, trace elements such as iron can limit the growth of organisms, such as phytoplankton. It is just not available enough for them to grow as fast as they otherwise would. That has been demonstrated by adding iron to the ocean and seeing growth increase.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

A yearly ICP + yearly/biannual dose of trace elements (safely and well below overdose) seems like a straightforward approach

It is, and is probably the best we can currently do. But the measuring and dosing likely needs to be a lot more frequent to be optimal.

My concerns are cost (a trace element that depletes in a couple of days or a week is not readily controlled by yearly testing), accuracy of measurement, and deciding what levels to target.

 

[Lasse]

There is theories that total organic carbon (TOC) may rise with time in a reef aquarium without regular WC. I have had my TOC tested since december 2018 with 12 individual Triton DOC tests. My result do not support this theory

​

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

There is theories that total organic carbon (TOC) may rise with time in a reef aquarium without regular WC. I have had my TOC tested since december 2018 with 12 individual Triton DOC tests. My result do not support this theory

​

Sincerely Lasse

I'm personally not so much worried about TOC when using organic export methods of various sorts, as opposed to smaller amounts of specific toxins, of which marine organisms make a lot.