The official nitrite conference 2021

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brandon429

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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Taricha your posts always elevate any discussion tyvm

I have a fun macro scope challenge for our get together

Here and on other cycling posts today I’m determined to collect searchable examples of a simple failed cycle.

for example, if we search the fish-in cycles posted here, the last three years let’s say, we can’t find any rtr examples of a truly failed cycle where the fish don’t swim normally, eat normally, and live fine while all along a red sea or api ammonia kit is causing alarm. Let’s see the actual doom examples


search outside rtr, google

post up a single example of a truly failed cycle. Free ammonia is so toxic to fish they’ll indicate its presence by dying or behaving so badly that’ll be the title of the post. If 100% of stalled cycle examples we can find are non digital test kits and asymptomatic claims, then we are onto something legit as a pattern. nitrite impacts if any can be analyzed in the linked example of the failed cycle.



Literally every reef cycle ever troubleshot online carries the implied stick of doom as the risk for noncompliance, ive noticed it’s all huff in my years online.


we can consider this side rule: what happens in 48 hours in a 5 gallon bucket stacked with dry rocks, no bac, clean saltwater, two clowns and some feed? That’s an uncycled system, and it’s gray and dead on day two the water smells the fish are belly up, nh3 did that. Let’s compare truly uncycled to claimed uncycled and consider patterns that may become evident.

ps the bucket test doesn’t work on margarita snails those little tough nh3 tolerating theory-killing runts lol right J
 
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brandon429

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I’ve searched for a truly stalled cycle till I’m blue in the face and can’t find any, amazed if y’all can.
 
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brandon429

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one would think that among the million searchable cycled reefs fully documented we'd find at least a handful of failure examples right? data mining for cycling patterns and expectation beats actually owning a test kit, am approaching this takeaway unless we get some readable links

*I know dead bottle bac exists and that's been found with api, looking this time for actual fish loss examples, inability to carry initial bioload. if dead bottles of bac are a stat. significant risk then some search returns + consequence w be available.
 

taricha

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Also waiting to hear how accurate these api tests are for nitrite.

is there any possibility that since api is the only nitrite testing source for literally all nitrite claims posted online we drift towards trusting it since there’s no other proofs avail?
More on this point, this question seems to have been thoroughly answered and documented here. where dilution was made with trusted standard and the test results run and measured with a colorimeter.
It was compared to a Greiss test.

Calibration Data is graphed here and it's nice and linear and quite good.


nitrite_api.jpeg


The issue I can see that you would run into, you can look at several ways:
The 2ppm color on the right is essentially fully saturated pink.
On the colorimeter data, it's hitting an absorbance of ~1.5 at 2ppm, which is dark enough you shouldn't trust it well beyond that.
On the color card, there's a 5ppm square but it's really not going to be distinguishable from 2ppm - they both are just saturated pink.

2ppm NO2 isn't hard to generate from dosing ammonia, if the nitrite oxidizers aren't active at the same time (and they often lag behind) then just 1ppm ammonia converted to no2 would max out the test (2.6 ppm).

So there's nothing wrong with the API test. But most new cycled tanks will max it out and not be able to get an actual reading without dilution.
 
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brandon429

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Thats an example of causing unnecessary hesitation in dealing with nitrite in a cycle. Someone is either cycled or they're not. they're either 2-4 weeks past the known deposition time of 24 hour bacteria (Dr Reefs bottle bac thread, charts out deposition rates, fritz is fastest, 24 hours) or they're not.


see how the trend is to simply stay away from an exact start date, notice the repeating trend. the key words fritz, and 2-4 weeks was how we know they're ready.


there are no instances where withholding feed and adding fritz plus 2-4 weeks wait didnt produce a ready tank. its a costly bac for a reason, it endures minor variance.
 
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brandon429

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can you please link us an example of a failed cycle as a thread, its an easy request and should be easy to locate.

specifically a reef tank
 
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This thread above has good nitrite chemistry to consider




That's the truth about nitrite in cycling and in a reef tank.

Nobody has ever shown a reef tank nitrite loss example, because there are none.
 
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the conference has not convened apparently


we need a better resolution agreed upon so that tank cyclers have a clear direction.


Rojees has spent days concerning over measured nitrite levels and I'm getting private messages asking about nitrite levels so it still matters to the masses…



since last update here, we have closed out about fifty more online cycles by excluding all nitrite knowledge, see new tanks forum and their tank updates.

For new reef tank cyclers: if you own a nitrite test kit and run it, expect to enjoy reefing less than what you will enjoy reefing by using ammonia control only cycling approaches. People aren’t sure if you’re messing up tests by adding Prime for example, and we find lots of nitrite issue threads to withhold potential contamination details until conversation extracts them

Just because you wait for nitrite compliance it doesn’t mean the nitrate test you're using next would agree with any other tests on the same sample…we can see nitrate test comparison threads for common kits and they range fifty ppm at times.

if you have today’s best nitrate kit, then wait to use it until the # of days for nitrite compliance off a cycling chart has lapsed in your cycle. This date will have no bearing on the allowed bioload carry start date for the system… that can be as fast as one month before nitrite compliance from a cycling chart.

ammonia control is all you need to know to verify reliable and timely cycle completion. This is how sellers run reef conventions
and never stall a start date



the whole point of a thread nitrite conf is bringing together totally opposing sides on filter management for marine aquaria and see what uses the best science, the most repeatable science


what is truly best for today’s cycling aquarist: putting any focus on nitrite, or putting all the focus on disease control and prevention.
 
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