The official nitrite conference 2021

brandon429

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the rate of new cycling reefs is set to increase to astounding numbers, we are at about 5 new cycling posts per day across forums and it’s increasing due to the ease of today’s cycling products. They work

they let people get fish, fast, and those fish live as normal for months. that's the trend, click anyone's new reef post and if you find one that didnt go that way, link it.


cycle umpires/advisors on the board routinely post nitrite lethality studies/links to new cyclers in spite of searchable articles here stating nitrite is neutral in display tank reefing.


this thread can be the final proof in the matter regarding nitrite toxicity, we can determine here if new cyclers ever need to own the kit for the entirety of reefing. They can use this thread as a nitrite concern reference.

My opening request is simple:

prove consequence exist.

post one link from any forum, any year, that you think demonstrates nitrite toxicity and we must see something in the tank dying, or gray water, or stink/unable to control smell etc you can't just pick a random API nitrite post from six million online and sell us that API is all of the sudden perfectly right in every stated nitrite test.


If this quorum can't link any typical reef thread showing nitrite toxicity, then I'll move to cease scaring new hires with out of context links that do not involve reef tank cycling.


Azenkendae, can you post that link example using a reef tank? Its merely one example, you can pick it from any decade from any reefing forum online


One way nitrite matters in cycling we read here in this forum is by conflating nitrate tests and causing a misread/ if nitrate testing is core in a cycle assessment, and you believe your api nitrate kit would be accurate other than for nitrite :) then that's a +1 for measuring nitrite.

can anyone find a lethal nitrite reef tank post though? what if we make a small paypal bounty, would that bring out the web detectives

How do we know api nitrite is correct when measured? has anyone here benchmarked it against another meter? does it work better than api ammonia worked for a million testers?
 
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brandon429

brandon429

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Fiefdom's exhibit A, a thread that directly asks for nitrite positive reef tanks to show up and we track them out as long as you want to message them and see if nitrite mattered.
The scarier blue their nitrite test is, the more we want to see pics of the fish and coral and anemones open and happy feeding daily.

That's an anticonsequence thread.

Someone post a nitrite consequence thread, the bet is you cannot.


You can post a youtube video saying nitrite will stall a cycle, though we show nitrite will not stall ammonia processing, and you can post a lethality study stating 20 ppm+ of nitrite will kill juvenile clownfish, but you can't find one single link in reefing to show that happening in context.

should new cyclers own a nitrite test kit? should old cyclers?

who should be testing for nitrite? What standards do you require to accept a stated nitrite measurement as accurate?
 

SamBackspins

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I happened to read through the thread that I believe primarily prompted this post, wasn't Azenkendae agreeing with you, that nitrite doesn't matter?

Furthermore, the other gentlemen in that thread saying that he doesn't consider a cycle "complete" until it reaches zero across the board for Ammonia and Nitrite does have some important consequences to my mind. Namely, that it's probably good to just wait in general. I've worked at an LFS for quite a while, and when a customer comes in with a newer tank and there is a nitrite reading, I use it as an excuse to say "Look, slow down, this hobby isn't pay to win, it takes time and understanding".

Usually, if a customer has a reading with nitrite or a cycling question it means they need to slow down regardless of the specific issue and if "nitrite isn't a problem". Which I agree with. But if they don't even understand the cycle, they probably need to go home and read up before they come back and "are ready for fish".
 
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brandon429

brandon429

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Thank you for posting. Yes he was agreeing that once heh nice call.

can you find any links where tanks died from starting too soon

agreed rushing is bad for new reefers, agreed. Just this once though we want to see the real downside, the scary outcome possibility as a link
 

KrisReef

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the rate of new cycling reefs is set to increase to astounding numbers, we are at about 5 new cycling posts per day across forums and it’s increasing due to the ease of today’s cycling products. They work

they let people get fish, fast, and those fish live as normal for months. that's the trend, click anyone's new reef post and if you find one that didnt go that way, link it.


cycle umpires/advisors on the board routinely post nitrite lethality studies/links to new cyclers in spite of searchable articles here stating nitrite is neutral in display tank reefing.


this thread can be the final proof in the matter regarding nitrite toxicity, we can determine here if new cyclers ever need to own the kit for the entirety of reefing. They can use this thread as a nitrite concern reference.

My opening request is simple:

prove consequence exist.

post one link from any forum, any year, that you think demonstrates nitrite toxicity and we must see something in the tank dying, or gray water, or stink/unable to control smell etc you can't just pick a random API nitrite post from six million online and sell us that API is all of the sudden perfectly right in every stated nitrite test.


If this quorum can't link any typical reef thread showing nitrite toxicity, then I'll move to cease scaring new hires with out of context links that do not involve reef tank cycling.


Azenkendae, can you post that link example using a reef tank? Its merely one example, you can pick it from any decade from any reefing forum online


One way nitrite matters in cycling we read here in this forum is by conflating nitrate tests and causing a misread/ if nitrate testing is core in a cycle assessment, and you believe your api nitrate kit would be accurate other than for nitrite :) then that's a +1 for measuring nitrite.

can anyone find a lethal nitrite reef tank post though? what if we make a small paypal bounty, would that bring out the web detectives

How do we know api nitrite is correct when measured? has anyone here benchmarked it against another meter? does it work better than api ammonia worked for a million testers?
If their is money involved, I can easily provide the "science" to say it's so!

How much money are we talking about @brandon429?
I will have to scale my research to fit the budgeted bounty. :)

Like A Boss Ship GIF
 
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tehmadreefer

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“cycle umpires/advisors on the board routinely post nitrite lethality studies/links to new cyclers in spite of searchable articles here stating nitrite is neutral in display tank reefing.”

Very few do this on here anymore as it has been shown on the past decade that nitrites don’t effect livestock like in freshwater. Those that do say something get their info from freshwater experience not marine…
 
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brandon429

brandon429

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one full non fungible tritecoin.

theyll be worthy some day u can bet on that. moreso than side eye Chloe

Nitrite concern is truly a recurring daily issue for reefing, we can even find some reefcentral questions going on from time to time, or questions from nano-reef.com and if it turns out we shouldn't even own the test kit, that's a big deal. that's a direction changer.

It means the params we measure to deem a ready start date might be changing, or not, awaiting consequence links. that's a new spin on the whole thing...show us a fail. one single fail out of all the cyclers we can all search.

cycling after all is very consequential. We know that if we make a test bucket of dry rocks, new saltwater, a clown, heated and moving water that test reef won't make two days after the first feeding.


so what does it mean when a cycler has been using two clowns and bottle bac for fifteen days, plus 2x daily feeding, and everything is working> do we then believe/care about api nitrite at that point? if so, post the fail thread.


its literally fascinating we cannot find one even though eighty people would love to post them as we speak.

In fact can someone go ahead and link a failed ammonia start cycle?

I bet we can't. and if we can't, that's a game changer. when dealing in statistics, things that dont have outliers are pretty neat.
 
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brandon429

brandon429

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we got a gif, excellent


any links?

baiting the chemistry forum is a dangerous hobby. Ill be expecting some doom as a link in like three minutes tops.


really though being serious, one benefit of not testing for nitrite is we dont make repeat purchases of bottle bac out of fear a cycle can't complete. We save money by narrowing down the test scope.
 
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Azedenkae

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“cycle umpires/advisors on the board routinely post nitrite lethality studies/links to new cyclers in spite of searchable articles here stating nitrite is neutral in display tank reefing.”

Very few do this on here anymore as it has been shown on the past decade that nitrites don’t effect livestock like in freshwater. Those that do say something get their info from freshwater experience not marine…
This! :D

I keep on posting articles of nitrite not being lethal (unless at super duper extremely high levels), but for some reason it seems like Brandon believes that what I am trying to say is instead that nitrite is definitely lethal and needs to absolutely be at 0... or something like that. I still have trouble understanding what he thinks I believe 100%, so trying to figure that out right now. XD
 

tehmadreefer

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This! :D

I keep on posting articles of nitrite not being lethal (unless at super duper extremely high levels), but for some reason it seems like Brandon believes that what I am trying to say is instead that nitrite is definitely lethal and needs to absolutely be at 0... or something like that. I still have trouble understanding what he thinks I believe 100%, so trying to figure that out right now. XD
Good luck with that! Just post up some of Randy’s articles on the subject, lol

I don’t have the time, patience or brain cells to decipher the language used to even attempt a debate.
 
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Azedenkae

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Good luck with that! Just post up some of Randy’s articles on the subject, lol

I don’t have the time, patience or brain cells to decipher the language used to even attempt a debate.
I did post up the article, this one: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php right? XD Brandon keeps on saying I post up links to articles about cycling needing nitrite or something like that, but I only ever reference this one, and one other: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10499-015-9965-9, which just more specifically talks about nitrite toxicity at sub-lethal levels, but still needs to be way high. ._. Both articles are essentially saying don't fret, so I don't really understand why Brandon says I post up articles saying we need to be concerned about nitrite during the cycle?

Maybe the confusion is that I tend to just give a warning just so people are aware that there is a higher range of nitrite that can cause issues, even if it is unlikely anyone ever reaches that level? I think that might be it, though I am still confused because I definitely don't ever say the levels we tend to ever read is ever a worry. Like here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/cycle-problems.837083/. It's clear that I am saying not to worry about the 6ppm nitrite, right? Or was I unclear?

I don't want to argue with Brandon, but this is starting to get under my skin. I doubt it'll get anywhere because multiple times I tried to point out what I say and he either ignores it completely by never replying to me again in the thread, or go about doing something like this. To be honest this is more for everyone else to understand me than for Brandon to understand me. The latter seems impossible.
 
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brandon429

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its a link request, for examples of a failed cycle. we all have our observations we make to try and forward the hobby, but this once I wanted links of the bad outcomes.


inability to find any seems to make less room for debate on what's going on, and during that debate thousands of people are buying/rebuying bottle bac for a condition that does not exist. They're hyperfocusing on ammonia and or nitrite, not focusing on fish disease, and then their fish die soon having nothing to do with cycling. we are trying to stem that loss by making an injunction for cycle umps to direct folks to disease management, pretty much every angle we can cycle from completes, so quit posting links that seem to imply nitrite will harm your cycle. Only extreme studies exist to find lethality in nitrite in marine tanks, nothing practical. no links you or I have ever seen. Yet daily in the new reefers forum they're being told nitrite matters, we should decide that here for 2021.


so far there aren’t any posts showing any time we must measure nitrite in reefing in order to be safe.
 
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brandon429

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can you please, for the love of Pete, post one here even if redundant Homebrood


post a link you refer to, a bad outcome of cycle or nitrite-positive confirmed loss.

and if you can't that means me clicking show ignored content isn't very fruitful.

if you can post one, I'll leave it permanently unclicked-want to see what you have to say, out of concern Im missing pertinent details we can use in cycling science work.

its come to my attention that detractors actually have nothing they can link where we can read their experiences line up with the critique.

I will be amazed when someone posts a reef that couldnt survive in the link from post #2

you make it sound as common as the sun shines...these failed cycles.
 

elorablue

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What makes this thread OFFICIAL ? Because you say it is?
I wont speak for others but enough is enough. There is nothing valuable or even rational in any of these threads you start to continue spawning your narrative. I've been a member of many forums on many different topics over the years and this will be the first time I've ever done this. Congratulations..

ignored.
 
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brandon429

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so as you can see, there aren't any links available in any forum online any time recently or not recently you can pinpoint nitrite toxicity. Even finding one for ammonia toxicity, very very tough. This thread is meant to collect simple posts showing links of cycling distress, loss, obvious noncontrol. That's a non offensive thing to ask for in a room full of nitrite specialists and cyclers.

I still didnt ignore you just needed a quip. elora though, I dont even get tempted to read theres no way he posted a cycle he's worked as a link. he posted some bait for me, but not anything on subject.

we should audit the veracity of the chemistry forum, what if ya'll coffee has not kicked in yet.

Someone go make up a fantastic chemistry claim about reefing, post it in this forum as a new thread and let's track the outcome. I bet errors are quickly corrected.



we should be able to find from experience people in here who have seen nitrite stall out a cycle and not from a youtube video of a talk, an actual failed tank. Id even accept 2005 examples at this point.


This cycle is now fixed using the rules from the conference
 
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